Original intentions with C&C Options

[Bittah Commander]

This topic was posted on the Petroglyph forums and has some very interesting replies by Ishmael -a Petroglyph (and former Westwood) staff member- about what Westwood probably would have done with the story if they still owned the C&C rights and things that used to be facts when they still owned those rights (but in my opinion they still are facts, because EA isn't making a real C&C anyway).

For those who don't have an account at Petroglyph's forum and are just too lazy to register, I'll quote the posts of Petroglyph staff in that topic.

Hi,

i'm new here and a BIG fan of C&C by Westwood. Too bad, EA is butchering now the brand... :glare:
Well, i have some questions regarding the timeline of the C&C universe. I've worked out this one:

Red Alert 1: 1946-1952
Red Alert 2: ca. 1966-7/31/1972
Yuris Revenge: April 1972
Red Alert 3: between 1980 and 1995
Tiberian Dawn: 1995-1998 or 1999-2002
Renegade: 1998 or 2002
Tiberian Sun: 9/2/2030-Dec 2030
Firestorm: Dec 2030-2031
Tiberian Twilight: starts March 2047

-Is it correct?
-Can you fix it?
-The manual of Renegade says 2020, but it makes no sense?

So long
Chrissyx :petroicon:

Are you trying to nail down specific dates? I'm unsure exactly what you're after from us.

Keep in mind that anything that we (former WW employees that created those games) say about the C&C time-line is now completely speculative. We don't own C&C, so even if we were to tell you some dates, EA could easily override that for their purposes with that franchise.

Your best bet would be to ask someone that now controls the C&C lore from EA as to what dates they feel are appropriate. :(

Incursion was our working name for C&C3, but that wasn't converted into Generals by WWP. Incursion was being worked on after Generals was already being developed -- we were using SAGE to dev it, actually. Generals was always its own game. It was more an updating of C&C1 than anything akin to what C&C3 was going to be. A few of the unit concepts for early C&C3 ended up in RA2 / Yuri's... as yes, we were working on C&C3 stuff that long ago, right after TS/FS, but before we stopped work on C&C3 to work on Continuum.

C&C3 went through several incarnations at WWS and at EALA over the years after that. The current game (C&C3) doesn't look to have any of the new/unique elements we were playing around with back then (which I can't discuss), but feels like TS 2.5 in terms of story / fiction, a re-imagining of parts of TS in some ways I guess. If Generals was C&C TD 1.5, then C&C3 being C&C TS 2.5 makes sense.

I can't say for sure if that's their intent, since I don't keep up with C&C more than watching the videos that you've all seen as well. P-02 keeps us plenty busy!

Since EA owns and has all the docs we used to keep on C&C lore / history, they actually have all those intended dates and such for the time-line themselves. We don't have any of that any longer, since that's all EA property.

DISCLAIMER: This is ALL SPECULATIVE. Don't go asking EA about this, as it was never written down and they wouldn't know about it. This was a plan that some of us that influenced the fiction had discussed.

In dealing with C&C timeline, you have one problem -- the timeline split...

It was:

Red Alert
C&C TD
Renegade
C&C TS / FS
C&C 3
|---> Red Alert 2 / Yuri's --> ???
\---> C&C (4) --> ???

Now as to just WHAT was going to happen in C&C3 to split the timeline... well that's all just fantasy speculation now. The RA2 disconnect was completely explained by the event as well, and it all ties back into the origin of the entire C&C universe and RA's inciting incident.

So that's the timeline. RA2 didn't happen initially, so the dates would be off. Just like Einstein removed Hitler, someone changed the past yet again, resulting in the RA2 universe / split before TS could happen in the first place.

So there you go.

Nah, it's just that what we say isn't the "truth" any longer, and since EA owns the rights to C&C and the franchise, we can't say anything about C&C with any authority any longer. I'm just trying to manage people's expectations on how much value they should put on anything we say regarding the C&C franchise or past Westwood games.

Believe me, we certainly loved making all those games.

WWS developed Renegade.

If you'll remember in Renegade, Mobius comments on the new strain of "blue" tiberium that he's studying...

Also, the Nod computer in the end that's malfunctioning in the temple has a very interesting acronym... hmm...

Renegade was set between C&C TD and C&C TS.

DISCLAIMER: Again, this stuff is all based on things that were never written down or were edited out of drafts, so don't go asking EA about them, they won't know about it.

RA was the start of the universe. Einstein removing Hitler is what shifted the "real" universe to the C&C one. In the original, original drafts of the RA story, Tesla and Einstein were the dueling scientists behind each side's new tech. Although the tesla tech stayed for the Soviets, Tesla didn't.

However, if you read about Tesla (the real tesla), you'll find that he claimed to have contacted aliens through his tech... hmm... now what if he really DID contact aliens... what aliens did he contact? What did the aliens do in response?

...are you starting to see where this is leading?

I'm the Creative Director actually. I don't have to manage schedules.

But we're certainly putting as much thought and planning into our new P-02 universe as we did with C&C, and all the designers really seem to be digging it. The missions are looking pretty cool and very varied.

I think it'll be an interesting ride for a lot of people through the campaign. We're doing some things differently than most RTS...

This post has been edited by Bittah Commander: May 25 2007, 03:06 AM

[Bittah Commander]

I just thought of this:
Maybe the reason why someone messed with time again in Tiberian Incursion was to prevent Tesla from ever contacting the aliens. So someone travels back in time, prevents Tesla from contacting the aliens and creates a new dimension (the one RA2 happens in), just like happened when Einstein traveled back in time to remove Hitler. Now the name "Red Alert 2" would make a bit of sense actually, because the first time someone messed with time a new dimension was created starting with RA1, then someone messes with time again and creates another dimension, starting with RA2.
But anyway, by preventing Tesla from contacting the aliens, the aliens would also be prevented from sending tiberium to earth, like you can see in RA2, but Kane is also missing there... So maybe it was actually the Scrin who allowed Kane to escape the land of Nod and Kane made a deal with them for that. This would explain why Kane wouldn't be in RA2 (no tesla contacting aliens==no tiberium on earth+no Kane escaping land of Nod) and why Kane was trying to spread tiberium around the earth so bad; it was just part of his deal with the Scrin.