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Bittah Commander
This topic was posted on the Petroglyph forums and has some very interesting replies by Ishmael -a Petroglyph (and former Westwood) staff member- about what Westwood probably would have done with the story if they still owned the C&C rights and things that used to be facts when they still owned those rights (but in my opinion they still are facts, because EA isn't making a real C&C anyway).

For those who don't have an account at Petroglyph's forum and are just too lazy to register, I'll quote the posts of Petroglyph staff in that topic.
QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 14 2006, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Chrissyx @ Dec 12 2006, 11:56 PM)

Hi,

i'm new here and a BIG fan of C&C by Westwood. smile.gif Too bad, EA is butchering now the brand... :glare:
Well, i have some questions regarding the timeline of the C&C universe. I've worked out this one:

Red Alert 1: 1946-1952
Red Alert 2: ca. 1966-7/31/1972
Yuris Revenge: April 1972
Red Alert 3: between 1980 and 1995
Tiberian Dawn: 1995-1998 or 1999-2002
Renegade: 1998 or 2002
Tiberian Sun: 9/2/2030-Dec 2030
Firestorm: Dec 2030-2031
Tiberian Twilight: starts March 2047

-Is it correct?
-Can you fix it? rolleyes.gif
-The manual of Renegade says 2020, but it makes no sense?

So long
Chrissyx :petroicon:

Are you trying to nail down specific dates? I'm unsure exactly what you're after from us.

Keep in mind that anything that we (former WW employees that created those games) say about the C&C time-line is now completely speculative. We don't own C&C, so even if we were to tell you some dates, EA could easily override that for their purposes with that franchise.

Your best bet would be to ask someone that now controls the C&C lore from EA as to what dates they feel are appropriate. :(

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 18 2006, 08:44 PM)
Incursion was our working name for C&C3, but that wasn't converted into Generals by WWP. Incursion was being worked on after Generals was already being developed -- we were using SAGE to dev it, actually. Generals was always its own game. It was more an updating of C&C1 than anything akin to what C&C3 was going to be. A few of the unit concepts for early C&C3 ended up in RA2 / Yuri's... as yes, we were working on C&C3 stuff that long ago, right after TS/FS, but before we stopped work on C&C3 to work on Continuum.

C&C3 went through several incarnations at WWS and at EALA over the years after that. The current game (C&C3) doesn't look to have any of the new/unique elements we were playing around with back then (which I can't discuss), but feels like TS 2.5 in terms of story / fiction, a re-imagining of parts of TS in some ways I guess. If Generals was C&C TD 1.5, then C&C3 being C&C TS 2.5 makes sense.

I can't say for sure if that's their intent, since I don't keep up with C&C more than watching the videos that you've all seen as well. P-02 keeps us plenty busy!

Since EA owns and has all the docs we used to keep on C&C lore / history, they actually have all those intended dates and such for the time-line themselves. We don't have any of that any longer, since that's all EA property.

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 18 2006, 09:01 PM)
DISCLAIMER: This is ALL SPECULATIVE. Don't go asking EA about this, as it was never written down and they wouldn't know about it. This was a plan that some of us that influenced the fiction had discussed.

In dealing with C&C timeline, you have one problem -- the timeline split...

It was:

Red Alert
C&C TD
Renegade
C&C TS / FS
C&C 3
|---> Red Alert 2 / Yuri's --> ???
\---> C&C (4) --> ???

Now as to just WHAT was going to happen in C&C3 to split the timeline... well that's all just fantasy speculation now. The RA2 disconnect was completely explained by the event as well, and it all ties back into the origin of the entire C&C universe and RA's inciting incident.

So that's the timeline. RA2 didn't happen initially, so the dates would be off. Just like Einstein removed Hitler, someone changed the past yet again, resulting in the RA2 universe / split before TS could happen in the first place.

So there you go.

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 19 2006, 12:43 AM)
Nah, it's just that what we say isn't the "truth" any longer, and since EA owns the rights to C&C and the franchise, we can't say anything about C&C with any authority any longer. I'm just trying to manage people's expectations on how much value they should put on anything we say regarding the C&C franchise or past Westwood games.

Believe me, we certainly loved making all those games. biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 21 2006, 07:26 PM)
WWS developed Renegade.

If you'll remember in Renegade, Mobius comments on the new strain of "blue" tiberium that he's studying...

Also, the Nod computer in the end that's malfunctioning in the temple has a very interesting acronym... hmm...

Renegade was set between C&C TD and C&C TS.

DISCLAIMER: Again, this stuff is all based on things that were never written down or were edited out of drafts, so don't go asking EA about them, they won't know about it.

RA was the start of the universe. Einstein removing Hitler is what shifted the "real" universe to the C&C one. In the original, original drafts of the RA story, Tesla and Einstein were the dueling scientists behind each side's new tech. Although the tesla tech stayed for the Soviets, Tesla didn't.

However, if you read about Tesla (the real tesla), you'll find that he claimed to have contacted aliens through his tech... hmm... now what if he really DID contact aliens... what aliens did he contact? What did the aliens do in response?

...are you starting to see where this is leading? wink1.gif

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Dec 22 2006, 12:01 AM)
I'm the Creative Director actually. I don't have to manage schedules. biggrin.gif

But we're certainly putting as much thought and planning into our new P-02 universe as we did with C&C, and all the designers really seem to be digging it. The missions are looking pretty cool and very varied.

I think it'll be an interesting ride for a lot of people through the campaign. We're doing some things differently than most RTS...
Crash
Cool!
ChielScape
this should be show to EA, at the very least.
Ixith
i always kinda had an idea that the storyline was suppose to go something somewhat like that.
hell i wish EA wouldav never f*cked things up.

anyways this was some pretty interesting information. wink1.gif
Blacksilence
I rader don't say this becaus i like generals and zero hour.
But now i read this f*ck EA. Ea sucks to the ground Burn those ***********,( Not the games), The Bought up Westwood to clim higher up in the gaming world.(sorry For my Language)
If you look good in Ts, Westwood left certain things out of the game, reason Not in of money
Then Ea comes in, to help( They have more money pissed.gif sneaky2.gif mad.gif )The Released Tiberian Sun Unfinsched.
And Ea goes on.
Crash
Yeah... I think they have ruined a little and they didn't say anything about cnc after realesing generals, (I think it doesn't belong to the cnc universe really, Tiberium and Red alert is the real thing and feels like it should!. Generals is...... cool but it's not cnc alike. I think Red Alert 2 didn't kinda follow the story either. I like red alert orginal more. It gives me the CNC feeling, I get it in ra 2 but not like in the other ones.
What did it do to the storyline ? It just throwed in alot of wierd stuff. NOTHING about Einstein's time travel or Kane. And it felt like a stand alone product if you know what I mean. I think EA might give the fans what they like now. I just hope that they'll wait another 5 years with a new game. It hasn't been a real cnc game since tib sun
Bittah Commander
The upcoming C&C really won't be what the fans want; it just lacks too much continuity (only the "fans" that don't care about continuity might get what they want).
I've also always said RA2 didn't fit in the canon of C&C, but I'm alright with it after hearing Ishmael's explanation; that RA2 actually also is in another universe. So we've got our universe, the C&C universe (RA, TD, TS, TI?, TT?) and another universe in which RA2 happens.
Robo fish
well here is my opinion :

Westwood C&C : Red Alert, Command and Conquer, Tiberian Sun/Firestorm, Sole Survivor <--- the serie we all love

EALA/EA with Westwood : RA2/Yuri, Renegade <--- Were EA start f*cking things up

EA : Tiberian Wars <--- Were EA Broke the serie we all love
wondle_donkey
So Nikola contacted the scrin, giving them the location of earth, which they then infest with tiberium to terraform it to they're liking.

Damn i wish i thought of that.
Bittah Commander
This was just posted at Petro's forums
QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Jan 6 2007, 02:40 AM)
Remember that tablet that Kane had in his palace in Renegade? In a vid at the end of C&C TD during the credits?

It depicts something important, and gives you a clue as to his origins.

What I understand from this (even though I'd always rather think that Kane just wanted people to think this to give him more power) is that Kane actually really is Caïn, son of Adam, who killed his brother, Abel.

This does seem a little odd though, because if he really is Caïn (who also very coincidentally was banned to the land of Nod), then why does he only exist in one dimension (the C&C one) and not in any others (like our universe and the RA2 universe), just like Einstein, Tesla, Stalin and Hitler do?
The fact thát he is Caïn (a religious person) could have to do with this, but then again Adam also exists in all dimensions...

The way I see it all existing dimensions (the ones that exist according to C&C) are the only the ones created by messing with time and thus there'd only exist 3 dimensions now (though the RA2 dimension possibly has yet to be created in Tiberian Incursion and thus wouldn't exist yet), the RA2 one actually being irrelevant in the canon of C&C (because whatever happens in it, doesn't have any effect on the C&C universe). So all dimensions have a common history (seeming the dimensions where all one at a certain time, but got separated at a certain point).

Still, if this is the case, Kane would have been in our time line as well (possibly taking control of Hitler's forces... Or maybe he is in our timeline and he's Bin Laden's or even Bush's Right hand tongue.gif), but he isn't. Kane only appeared after Einstein created the C&C universe by traveling back in time and removing Hitler, so somehow that should be the cause of Kane's escape from the land of Nod.
Maybe when the C&C dimension got created it got a little messed up and something was missing or different which allowed Kane to escape. There might be a better explanation though...

Anyway, it can be explained why Kane wouldn't be in the RA2 universe. During Tiberian Incursion the time machine is either found, constructed or reconstructed (possibly Kane did have blue prints for the time machine -which the chronosphere is also based on- but he just never build it) and someone traveled back in time to prevent Kane from escaping the land of Nod; which also created RA2 (a time line in which Kane doesn't exist, but in which another madman takes his place). The appearance of Yuri also has to be explained somehow though...
Team Black
Heyy, this reminds me of another topic, from tumsun...

This one to be exact.

The conversation about EA though also reminds me of a catchy saying I heard once,
"the golden rule is that the one with the gold makes the rules"

Westwood had the creativity, but EA had the $$
Bittah Commander
I just thought of this:
Maybe the reason why someone messed with time again in Tiberian Incursion was to prevent Tesla from ever contacting the aliens. So someone travels back in time, prevents Tesla from contacting the aliens and creates a new dimension (the one RA2 happens in), just like happened when Einstein traveled back in time to remove Hitler. Now the name "Red Alert 2" would make a bit of sense actually, because the first time someone messed with time a new dimension was created starting with RA1, then someone messes with time again and creates another dimension, starting with RA2.
But anyway, by preventing Tesla from contacting the aliens, the aliens would also be prevented from sending tiberium to earth, like you can see in RA2, but Kane is also missing there... So maybe it was actually the Scrin who allowed Kane to escape the land of Nod and Kane made a deal with them for that. This would explain why Kane wouldn't be in RA2 (no tesla contacting aliens==no tiberium on earth+no Kane escaping land of Nod) and why Kane was trying to spread tiberium around the earth so bad; it was just part of his deal with the Scrin.
SMIFFGIG
If the timelines are all intermingled like this, then what happened to the Chronosphere and Chronosphere technology in TD and Tiberian Sun (RA2 is just ridiculous, and even has a seperate "Time Machine" building which makes no sense)

TD I can understand (because originally there was to be 3 C&C's only TD, TS and TT) but by the time of "C&C WW2" (which we all know as C&C Red Alert) they had made references to Kane (with his appearance in an FMV if i remember correctly)

But then all these links are ignored in TS

I still personally like the idea of there being 2 seperate universes, all these other confusions only came into it when WW decided to make RA1 after the initial planning and storyline of the Tiberium Universe and tried to link them together

Anyway anything they could do to make this link plausable went out the window with the RA2 game onwards

As much as I loved RA1 and its addons as a game, the C&C Tiberium Universe is still the best in my opinion and there is no need to try and tie all the C&C games into one single universe..... as this was definitly not the very original intention.
However the Tiberium Universe does seem to have ended (with TS/FS) as did the Red Alert universe with RA2 killing it :(
Bittah Commander
Were the links between RA and TD really ignored in TS? I'd say the links just weren't mentioned...
Also, I think it would be fair to assume the chronosphere was destroyed after RA; we all know the dangerous side effects it had (if you used the chronosphere a couple times in RA, a lightning shooting whirlwind would appear, destroying everything in it's path).
Tyler Adams
QUOTE (Bittah Commander @ Jan 8 2007, 12:08 AM) *
Were the links between RA and TD really ignored in TS? I'd say the links just weren't mentioned...
Also, I think it would be fair to assume the chronosphere was destroyed after RA; we all know the dangerous side effects it had (if you used the chronosphere a couple times in RA, a lightning shooting whirlwind would appear, destroying everything in it's path).


Yep.

Chrono Vortex.

Makes perfect sense, actually.
Mr. Pokey
The RA->TD->TS time-line makes perfect sense, the technology that has apparently disappeared would have been destroyed, it being dangerous, or the plans being destroyed so the allies couldn't get their hands on it.
Clazzy
QUOTE
Were the links between RA and TD really ignored in TS? I'd say the links just weren't mentioned...
Also, I think it would be fair to assume the chronosphere was destroyed after RA; we all know the dangerous side effects it had (if you used the chronosphere a couple times in RA, a lightning shooting whirlwind would appear, destroying everything in it's path).

The Iron Curtain had no bad side-effects. People aren't dumb enough to lose blueprints and designs to a structure. Since people tend to assume that the Soviets won in RA then TD happened, this is a big flaw. Technology that advanced just doesn't go walkies over thirty years.
Bittah Commander
It's the allies who won RA though, this has been confirmed by former Westwood staff and it's also the usual path of the story in C&C (the good guys winning).
About the Iron Curtain, it might've also became obsolete because the allies found something to damage units the Iron Curtain was used on or even instantly destroy it...
Seeming that Einstein was also still with the allies after RA, it isn't that unlikely he created something that would render the Iron Curtain useless.
vOi!king ship
And why would he disable such a powerful weapon, eddectivelly rendering it useless, a weapon, which could be further developed and used by the Allied forces? Not very plausible. More plausible version - the Soviet Engineers destroyed all remaining Iron Curtains and commited suicide/were killed by Stalin's order, so that this technology doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

Yuri, being Stalin's advisor, could have a back-up somewhere, which he gave to Romanov after he returned from his secret mission.
Bittah Commander
I actually meant Einstein would've created some kind of weapon that when fired on a 'Iron-Curtained-unit', would possibly instantly destroy it or Einstein would've just adjusted the weapons of all units somehow, so that their weapons would damage 'Iron-Curtained-units' anyway and thus making the Iron Curtain useless.
If this would be the case, It actually would be believable for the soviets to destroy all their Iron Curtain technology and blue prints of it because it'd be useless to them anyway, but if it'd fall into the hands of the allies it would be very dangerous to them.
Clazzy
I might be wrong but the Allies captured the Iron Curtain in one of the missions.
Mr. Pokey
The allies destroy the Iron Curtain prototype, they do not capture it.
Crash
I said they MIGHT be able to make atleast a game with a little storyline and give us SOME of the old cnc feeling. I think it would be way better if old westwood made it. Atleast things are different. Cause it's mike verdu not Mark skaggs...
I am not sure. But is yuri stallins advisor ? Isn't Kane that or are both advisiors ?
You can't trust EA 100% like westwood. EA doesn't focus on what CNC needs. They focus on graphic :(
It's a really interesting thread up there bittah. I hope that one day, former WestWood staff might say everything that's supposed to happen... And compare it to EA's things. That would be good cause fans like us would see what EA has done good\bad

I like the Idea of Timeline. As Ra2 didn't happen really. It would make 2 much sense to the future. If they later on make ra 3 they can say it didn't happen. So in ra kane did blabla and someone removed timeline of RA2 and then RA3 starts(something not happening) And then peace. I think it's perfect if they do so. Then it's a small connection smile.gif Since ra2 and ra3 doesn't happpen this is kind of the way I think of it or if soviets won and it results in the tiberium univers. And if the allied won and that result in More RA games

Something like this Red alert1 -- Allied Win- Red alert 2- Red alert 3-more things (not tiberium universe)
|

soviet win

Peace
1995
tiberian dawn - tiberian sun - tiberium wars ( I prefer Tiberian Twilght :( )
Bittah Commander
No, Tiberian Dawn follows the the allied RA ending, no discussion about that.
Also, If Westwood still owned C&C, they wouldn't have made Tiberian Twilight either (since they were no longer intending to make C&C a trilogy), but instead Tiberian Incursion and maybe finally (possibly after another couple C&C's after TI) Tiberian Twilight.

This is what the timeline looks like according to Westwood's original idea:
Real World¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
¨¨¨\/¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Red Alert -> Tiberian Dawn -> Tiberian Sun -> Tiberian Incursion -> ???... -> Tiberian Twilight?
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨\/¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨Red Alert 2¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨

I have no idea whatever they intended to do in RA3 (or weather they really intended to make it)... If they would make an RA3, it'd obviously be a sequel to RA2, or it'd be another universe, created when someone messed with time again in either RA2, TI or any C&C after TI (in the C&C universe that is; RA2 isn't in the C&C universe, but in a separate universe).
Crash
But atleast red alert one has some kind a connection....
Anyway. I can look as it like theese universes then.

Red alert - tiberian dawn - tibarian sun - further on

Red alert - Red alert 2 - Red alert 3 (maybe) -end of red alert

So they are split okay. We need to look on things from red alert.

if we say that red alert is in both universes it might get easier. As Red alert 2 and 3 doesn't happen really. I see the point.

I think it gets right as kane says in red alert... that we need to keep peace till 1990's

so IT IS in the same world but you're the commander in the red alert 2 and 3. That is a isolated time

or i can think of it like this.


Red alert-Red alert2-Red alert3- Maybe kane goes back in time ? making ra2 not happen so he can start the tiberium age.
Tiberian dawn----------Tiberian sun-------tiberium wars

blabla I just get confused. let's say that the time between ra2 and tib dawn is not sighted by the tiberium universe. Or saying it's 2 possibilities of one universe



If I could, I would buy back command conquer and get alot of the old WW's emplooyes to work on it
Ixith
QUOTE ("Bittah Commander")
This is what the timeline looks like according to Westwood's original idea:
Real World¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
¨¨¨\/¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Red Alert -> Tiberian Dawn -> Tiberian Sun -> Tiberian Incursion -> ???... -> Tiberian Twilight?
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨\/¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨Red Alert 2¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨


that looks likely and better shows what you were trying to say earlier.
but in the Red alert 2 universe Red Alert 1 has still happened hasn't it? the only difference is that Kane just wasn't one of Stalin's advisers in the RA2 universe.

QUOTE ("Crashking")
Red alert-Red alert2-Red alert3- Maybe kane goes back in time ? making ra2 not happen so he can start the tiberium age.


well the only illogical thing about that is that Kane isnt in RA2 so he wouldnt be able to go back in time to start the tiberium universe. its much more likely someone else went back in time during the tiberian universe.

something like a GDI scientist or officer or general, gets the chrono tech stuff somehow and uses it to go back in time after RA1 but before tiberium is introduced and before the Scrin is contacted and removes Kane just like Einstein did with Hitler. or that person goes back and removes Tesla who contacted the scrin. probably the second of the two or both possibly.

i like this type of discussion it makes you think. lol
Bittah Commander
I think it'd actually make most sense if someone traveled back in time to prevent Einstein from removing Hitler (maybe they found out Einstein did this somehow) and thus preventing Red Alert (which is most likely where Kane got his power).
This makes sense because there are some things in Red Alert 2 that indicate World War 2 actually did happen... And if RA is prevented, WW2 does happen (unless RA is prevented by removing Stallin huh.gif).
Crash
Maybe... I like the ideas. 2 universes ?
Red Alert - Tiberian dawn - Tiberian Sun Tiberian Incursion - ???... -Tiberian Twilight

Red Alert - Red Alert 2 - Red Alert 3
Or maybe the red alert games are cronosphere time lines ?
vOi!king ship
RA - RA2 - RA3
...........|........................................
..........\/........................................
..........YR events happening - TD - TS - FS - Tberian Something...

My guess is that in RA2 timeline, when Yuri went bacl to the past disrupted the time-space ballance, creating a new future, and Tiberium in it. We still don't know if in RA3 the meteorite won't fall again, but this time the Soviet and Allied forces fight over it.
Crash
Man this confuses you
Mr. Pokey
Bittah's Timeline is correct, IMO.
gufu
what if actually Red Alert 3 ended with soviet victory?
And as last of allys soldier escape - they stoped Einstein from killing Hitler(Possibly by erasing Einstein himself) Then most of the world returns back to normal Tiberium Dawn storyline.
Bittah Commander
First of all none in the C&C universe knows Einstein removed Hitler from time and by preventing this, you will prevent Red Alert along with everything that came after it; Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun, Tiberian Incursion and whatever was supposed to come after that.
gufu
You think Einstein couldn't come back at time?

As soviet forces encircled the Chronosphere(or time machine) and began to pund at it from all possible sides... But as he disapears - we see kane walking away with briefcase... highly possibly blueprints...

Nothing was left of red Alert. Kane came officially began NOD(The military actions that is) Mammoth tanks we're created by GDI. Atom bomb by americans in 1945. All as it was now...

In 1998 Earth came under heavy meteorite bombardment - after that sightings of... Simply put - C&C began...

Possibly Kane waited in past... rebuilded chronosphere - and came back to our time... The time NOD waited for they're self appoionted leader. From then - simply original C&C comes back...
Bittah Commander
It's hard to understand what you're trying to say, but no time machine exists in C&C (at least not before Tiberian Incursion).

Here's (parts of) the original factual story (I'm only saying things I know or have heard from Ishmael, which are also facts in the original story; I'm making nothing up)

In the real world Einstein travels back in time to erase Hitler from time, but returns without noticing any change (and for as far as he knows it just didn't work)... Instead of removing Hitler to prevent WWII from happening, Einstein unknowingly created another universe (the C&C universe) in which Hitler just disappeared without a trace shortly after he was released from jail.
In the C&C universe, the Einstein there has no knowledge of ever having created a time machine and probably doesn't even know who Hitler is. In the C&C universe Einstein builds the Chronosphere and Philadelphia experiment (where the Chronosphere is tested) is a success, where in the real world the Philadelphia experiment resulted in a horrible disaster, after which the project was terminated (and Einstein built the time machine using the same technology, without anyone knowing about it). Everyone should already know the story until here; this is how it was written in the Canon of C&C, written by Cypher (which can be viewed at PlanetCNC) and confirmed to be true Westwood (obviously this is no longer the truth in C&C3's story, but C&C3's story is irrelevant to me anyway; the original story is the true story).

Now, in the real world it's said that Tesla contacted aliens through his technology. In the C&C universe Tesla really contacts aliens (maybe it worked better in the C&C universe than in the real world or maybe Einstein's technology improved it), which eventually results in the aliens coming to earth...
...The Great World War II (RA) happens, the allies defeat the soviets...
...A tiberium meteor crashes into earth (most likely sent to earth by the Scrin, who most likely arrived somewhere after RA)...
...The first tiberium war starts (TD)...
...A scrinship crashes somewhere and Kane recovers the Tacitus from it...
...Kane uses the Tacitus to build his own scrinship...
...Nod is defeated and GDI Fires an Ion Cannon on the Temple of Nod, where Kane is present...
...Kane announces to General Solomon he's still alive, the second tiberium war starts (TS)...
...Kane sends Slavik to recover the tacitus from his scrinship, but when Slavik gets to the underground hangar that's supposed to house the scrinship, it appears the scrinship is gone, after which it becomes clear Vega took the ship to attack some GDI forces...
...Vega crashes the scrinship, Nod recovers the tacitus...
...GDI spots the scrinship, sets up a base around it and protect it from Nod who is trying to destroy it to prevent GDI from learning more about it...
...
...
...
A third tiberium war starts (if this war 'd also be called a tiberium war at least); Tiberian Incursion. Someone messes with time again and creates another universe; RA2 takes place in this universe and it's unlikely anyone in the C&C universe has knowledge about the new universe that was created.
And this is all we know for sure.

Again, everything I just wrote is factual.

...I hope Ishmael well give away some more information (I'm mostly hoping for some more information about cabal).
gufu
Hm... actualy I make the idea of Einstein going back in time AGAIN and to stop himself from creating soviet attacks(As it seems - soviets are victorios) and erases HIMSELF in time - killing both his oneself and anotherself. That destroys RA universe - and instead things go as they should untill 1998 - tiberium and things begin... and then original C&C story comes...

Got it now?
Bittah Commander
The original C&C story starts from Eisntein erasing Hitler, followed by RA, which is then followed by TD, etc...
If RA is prevented, TD is inevitably also prevented. Also, Einstein is long dead even at the beginning of TD, so there's no Einstein that can go back in time to erase himself anyway. If someone would go back in time (which is most likely what was going to happen in Tiberian Incursion), it wouldn't be Einstein...

What I think is that in Tiberian Incursion the Scrin attack and they find out that it was Tesla who contacted them (and thus brought the Scrin to earth) and someone goes back in time to prevent Tesla from contacting the Scrin, creating the RA2 universe. In this universe Kane should also exist (just like he supposingly does in our universe), but he remains passive (just like in our universe). This is because the Tesla never contacted the Scrin in that universe and the Scrin (according to my theory) never got to make any kind of deal with Kane.

What I think is that Kane somehow became aware that aliens were heading towards earth and contacted them somehow... After which he made a deal with them.
Now that I think of it, the Scrin might have actually beamed Kane out when GDI fired the Ion Cannon on the Temple of Nod at the end of TD and you also saw Kane getting beamed out (or up) by the Scrin in the final TS Nod FMV.
Team Black
So pretty much any confliction between any C&C game's story timelines can be excusd by a time-travel universe-swap...

QUOTE
Now that I think of it, the Scrin might have actually beamed Kane out when GDI fired the Ion Cannon on the Temple of Nod at the end of TD and you also saw Kane getting beamed out (or up) by the Scrin in the final TS Nod FMV.

that's an interesting idea, I've always been trying to think of an explaination for when Kane dissapears in the last Nod FMV, that's the best one i've heard.
Bittah Commander
QUOTE (Team Black @ Jan 19 2007, 06:20 AM) *
So pretty much any confliction between any C&C game's story timelines can be excusd by a time-travel universe-swap...

No... Just the creation of the C&C universe and the creation of the RA2 universe are results of messing with time. Maybe (if it really was going to be made) RA3 would also exist in a new universe (which 'd then obviously also be the result of someone messing with time).

Nothing that happens in RA2 (especially in YR) really seems to make sense anyway, so I think it's best to just ignore RA2 (even/especially if/because it's in another universe); ignoring it keeps everything less cheesy. It's hard to connect 2 stories written by 2 different people and keeping the entire story realistic (if something works a certain way in one part of the story, it should work the same in the other part of the story, unless there's a good explanation for it working different) and without plotholes...
Because of this same reason many people that were fans of Terminator 1 and 2 didn't like Terminator 3 for example (the script was written by a different person).
gufu
I'm teellling you - REd ALERT IS BEFORE TD!!!
The is no tiberium in RA!(obvious tongue.gif)
What I mean is what Einstein kills hitler - it goes to RA2
Thne Einstein kills himself(erases in time) - destroying Red Alert univers - leaving us wiht pour-tiberium-ddawn universe
Crash
EA is ruining command and conquer! I saw a movie with scorpion tanks and crappy selection sounds from cnc 3
EA started ruining command conquer with RED ALERT 2 (still funny, but doesn't have anything of the orginal storyline)

Timeline of Tiberian Universe = RA - TD - TS

Timeline of RedAlert Univers = RA - RA2 - more

EA has made the games not fitting at all!
Red Alert 2 doesn't fit into Red Alert imo
Command Conquer 3 fits a little into Tiberian Sun after what I've seen

And generals shouldn't be command and conquer at all....

you know what ? I hope some command conquer fan takes a job in EA making things positive due to the orgnial story!

I will still buy cnc 3 but......


Maybe there should be realesed a mod for ts or cnc 3 that makes everything like it was ment to be
Bittah Commander
Now here's some more interesting stuff Ishmael posted on Petroglyph's forums:
QUOTE (Bittah Commander @ Mar 7 2007, 12:31 AM)
QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Mar 6 2007, 09:53 PM)
Ah, CABAL... I remember the day we came up with the acronym. I can still see it on the white-board.

Computer Assisted Bio-organic Artificial Life-form

Until now I've always thought CABAL stood for Computer Assisted Biologically Augmented Life-form :blink:
I believe this is also how it was said in Renegade, or was this just made up by EA/Westwood Pacific?

QUOTE (Ishmael-PG @ Mar 7 2007, 05:30 PM) *
RE: CABAL acronym in Renegade

Yeah, they changed it. I guess they figured it sounded better spoken or something. The name I put out was the one we created when CABAL came into existence in TS. It's not a huge change, but even I went "huh?" when I got to it in Renegade. biggrin.gif The intent is still clear though, so it's not a big deal.

RE: CABAL's future

Yep, we had plans for him. Without going into any real detail, eventually, he'd re-emerge with a cyborg / machine faction that had its desires set on conquering not just humanity... but the Scrin as well. The creation of CABAL via the Tacitus information and Kane's mind made for a very power-hungry and ruthless entity that sought control above all else.
Crimsonum
@Bittah, Clazzy, and SMIFFGIG: we do not know if the Chronosphere and Iron Curtain technology was ever lost after the Great WW II (Red Alert). You do remember some details fans have been discussing of for ages, like the disappear of Kane after he launches his world-altering missile. What if he used Chronosphere to chronosift himself, maybe back to Red Alert. That would explain the original reason why Kane was in Red Alert.

QUOTE
Yep, we had plans for him. Without going into any real detail, eventually, he'd re-emerge with a cyborg / machine faction that had its desires set on conquering not just humanity... but the Scrin as well. The creation of CABAL via the Tacitus information and Kane's mind made for a very power-hungry and ruthless entity that sought control above all else.


The incarnation of all know evil...Kane....created a monster, more glutton, more devious than anything before it...CABAL...

I'd like to know if Kane, after his another reincarnation, would sought out for the destruction of CABAL? Or, would Kane team up CABAL once more, to destroy Scrin? Would Kane kill Scrin, but spare Tiberium for his "future of manking"?
Bittah Commander
Tiberian Sun follows the Allied RA ending (don't argue, this is a fact). Ishmael (@ Petrogrlyph's forums) already gave an explanation for Kane's presence in Red Alert; Kane really is Cäin, Adam's son (and when you finish Tiberian Dawn you get to see an artifact with an illustration of Caïn {Kane} killing his brother Abel.

The Chronosphere was never in the possession of the soviets, so Kane could have never gotten his hands on it without the allies or GDI knowing about it. It only makes sence (no matter what happened) for the allies/GDI to destroy the Chronosphere after the Great World War II (Red Alert), because the side-effects (mainly the Vortex that wipes out everything in it's path, which appears in Red Alert when you've used the Chronosphere a couple times) were too great a risk and it's quite possible the worst possible side-effect the Chronosphere hasn't been witnessed yet.
Crimsonum
QUOTE (Bittah Commander @ Mar 8 2007, 03:49 PM) *
Tiberian Sun follows the Allied RA ending (don't argue, this is a fact).


I assume you mean Tiberian Dawn, along Tiberian Sun, follows the Allied RA ending, right?

QUOTE (Bittah Commander @ Mar 8 2007, 03:49 PM) *
Ishmael (@ Petrogrlyph's forums) already gave an explanation for Kane's presence in Red Alert; Kane really is Cäin, Adam's son (and when you finish Tiberian Dawn you get to see an artifact with an illustration of Caïn {Kane} killing his brother Abel.


I know, I have seen the artifact. But that does not explain why he is like, thousands of years old...or more...

The rest I agree, but what happened to Iron Curtain? Did Kane get that device on his possession? if so, he could have used it, along with the technology of Tacitus, to create that "Scrin ship" we see in TS. According to the FMV, a GDI soldier says that the C4 charges they placed to blow the thing up didn't even scratch it (invulnerability), but stupidly in the next mission, the craft could be destroyed almost instantly by some Nod troops...
Bittah Commander
Yeah, I obviously meant TS along with TD follow the Allied RA ending.

The allies defeated the soviets, meaning it's possible for them to have taken it from the soviets, along with all the blue prints and everything, making it impossible for the soviets to re-construct. Aside from that someone might have invented something that when applied to weapons, would make the Iron Curtain useless or even more likely, a weapon that when fired on a unit the Iron Curtain has been applied on, would instantly destroy the the unit.

The Scrinship is obviously not invulnerable, but the ship might just be built from a material (or the hull might be constructed in a certain way) it can easily resist an explosion, but is as vulnerable to armor piercings (or a collision with an object) as any other unit.
Clazzy
QUOTE
What if he used Chronosphere to chronosift himself, maybe back to Red Alert.

No, you don't quite get the Red Alert storyline/temporal mechanics. First of all, the time machine at the Red Alert intro allowed Einstein to travel back in time. However, the Chronosphere was merely a device to teleport a unit in space and not time. Time travel isn't as simple as changing something in the past to affect your own present. It would create a parallel universe so Kane travelling back in time wouldn't help at all. Besides, once Einstein shook Hitler's hand he reverted back to his original timeline, suggesting that (despite the obvious flaws) you can't stay in the past.
Team Black
Wouldn't it just be easier to stop trying to connect all the storylines, and just accept that they're different universes entirely?
Unless someone can go back in time and erase EA, we'll just have to accept that EA's CNC game's storylines aren't compatable with westwood's.
Westwood obviously meant RA1>TD>TS>TT/TI, but EA went in and dropped a a wrecking ball on it with RA2.
Crimsonum
QUOTE (Clazzy @ Mar 8 2007, 06:53 PM) *
No, you don't quite get the Red Alert storyline/temporal mechanics. First of all, the time machine at the Red Alert intro allowed Einstein to travel back in time. However, the Chronosphere was merely a device to teleport a unit in space and not time. Time travel isn't as simple as changing something in the past to affect your own present. It would create a parallel universe so Kane travelling back in time wouldn't help at all. Besides, once Einstein shook Hitler's hand he reverted back to his original timeline, suggesting that (despite the obvious flaws) you can't stay in the past.


I see...well, I think I rushed with my post...

QUOTE (Team Black @ Mar 8 2007, 07:24 PM) *
Wouldn't it just be easier to stop trying to connect all the storylines, and just accept that they're different universes entirely?
Unless someone can go back in time and erase EA, we'll just have to accept that EA's CNC game's storylines aren't compatable with westwood's.
Westwood obviously meant RA1>TD>TS>TT/TI, but EA went in and dropped a a wrecking ball on it with RA2.


And it would be easier to me if you had read the upper posts carefully. Ishmael from Petroglyph already stated that RA2 is it's own universe, that was born by unknown factor, in Tiberian Incursion (after TS).
ShDwBoRn
ugg...EA screwed this up BAD, i wonder if anyone at EA actually knows the correct timeline themsleves
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