Original intentions with C&C Options

[Bittah Commander]

This topic was posted on the Petroglyph forums and has some very interesting replies by Ishmael -a Petroglyph (and former Westwood) staff member- about what Westwood probably would have done with the story if they still owned the C&C rights and things that used to be facts when they still owned those rights (but in my opinion they still are facts, because EA isn't making a real C&C anyway).

For those who don't have an account at Petroglyph's forum and are just too lazy to register, I'll quote the posts of Petroglyph staff in that topic.

Hi,

i'm new here and a BIG fan of C&C by Westwood. Too bad, EA is butchering now the brand... :glare:
Well, i have some questions regarding the timeline of the C&C universe. I've worked out this one:

Red Alert 1: 1946-1952
Red Alert 2: ca. 1966-7/31/1972
Yuris Revenge: April 1972
Red Alert 3: between 1980 and 1995
Tiberian Dawn: 1995-1998 or 1999-2002
Renegade: 1998 or 2002
Tiberian Sun: 9/2/2030-Dec 2030
Firestorm: Dec 2030-2031
Tiberian Twilight: starts March 2047

-Is it correct?
-Can you fix it?
-The manual of Renegade says 2020, but it makes no sense?

So long
Chrissyx :petroicon:

Are you trying to nail down specific dates? I'm unsure exactly what you're after from us.

Keep in mind that anything that we (former WW employees that created those games) say about the C&C time-line is now completely speculative. We don't own C&C, so even if we were to tell you some dates, EA could easily override that for their purposes with that franchise.

Your best bet would be to ask someone that now controls the C&C lore from EA as to what dates they feel are appropriate. :(

Incursion was our working name for C&C3, but that wasn't converted into Generals by WWP. Incursion was being worked on after Generals was already being developed -- we were using SAGE to dev it, actually. Generals was always its own game. It was more an updating of C&C1 than anything akin to what C&C3 was going to be. A few of the unit concepts for early C&C3 ended up in RA2 / Yuri's... as yes, we were working on C&C3 stuff that long ago, right after TS/FS, but before we stopped work on C&C3 to work on Continuum.

C&C3 went through several incarnations at WWS and at EALA over the years after that. The current game (C&C3) doesn't look to have any of the new/unique elements we were playing around with back then (which I can't discuss), but feels like TS 2.5 in terms of story / fiction, a re-imagining of parts of TS in some ways I guess. If Generals was C&C TD 1.5, then C&C3 being C&C TS 2.5 makes sense.

I can't say for sure if that's their intent, since I don't keep up with C&C more than watching the videos that you've all seen as well. P-02 keeps us plenty busy!

Since EA owns and has all the docs we used to keep on C&C lore / history, they actually have all those intended dates and such for the time-line themselves. We don't have any of that any longer, since that's all EA property.

DISCLAIMER: This is ALL SPECULATIVE. Don't go asking EA about this, as it was never written down and they wouldn't know about it. This was a plan that some of us that influenced the fiction had discussed.

In dealing with C&C timeline, you have one problem -- the timeline split...

It was:

Red Alert
C&C TD
Renegade
C&C TS / FS
C&C 3
|---> Red Alert 2 / Yuri's --> ???
\---> C&C (4) --> ???

Now as to just WHAT was going to happen in C&C3 to split the timeline... well that's all just fantasy speculation now. The RA2 disconnect was completely explained by the event as well, and it all ties back into the origin of the entire C&C universe and RA's inciting incident.

So that's the timeline. RA2 didn't happen initially, so the dates would be off. Just like Einstein removed Hitler, someone changed the past yet again, resulting in the RA2 universe / split before TS could happen in the first place.

So there you go.

Nah, it's just that what we say isn't the "truth" any longer, and since EA owns the rights to C&C and the franchise, we can't say anything about C&C with any authority any longer. I'm just trying to manage people's expectations on how much value they should put on anything we say regarding the C&C franchise or past Westwood games.

Believe me, we certainly loved making all those games.

WWS developed Renegade.

If you'll remember in Renegade, Mobius comments on the new strain of "blue" tiberium that he's studying...

Also, the Nod computer in the end that's malfunctioning in the temple has a very interesting acronym... hmm...

Renegade was set between C&C TD and C&C TS.

DISCLAIMER: Again, this stuff is all based on things that were never written down or were edited out of drafts, so don't go asking EA about them, they won't know about it.

RA was the start of the universe. Einstein removing Hitler is what shifted the "real" universe to the C&C one. In the original, original drafts of the RA story, Tesla and Einstein were the dueling scientists behind each side's new tech. Although the tesla tech stayed for the Soviets, Tesla didn't.

However, if you read about Tesla (the real tesla), you'll find that he claimed to have contacted aliens through his tech... hmm... now what if he really DID contact aliens... what aliens did he contact? What did the aliens do in response?

...are you starting to see where this is leading?

I'm the Creative Director actually. I don't have to manage schedules.

But we're certainly putting as much thought and planning into our new P-02 universe as we did with C&C, and all the designers really seem to be digging it. The missions are looking pretty cool and very varied.

I think it'll be an interesting ride for a lot of people through the campaign. We're doing some things differently than most RTS...

This post has been edited by Bittah Commander: May 25 2007, 03:06 AM

[Bittah Commander]

This was just posted at Petro's forums

Remember that tablet that Kane had in his palace in Renegade? In a vid at the end of C&C TD during the credits?

It depicts something important, and gives you a clue as to his origins.

What I understand from this (even though I'd always rather think that Kane just wanted people to think this to give him more power) is that Kane actually really is Caïn, son of Adam, who killed his brother, Abel.

This does seem a little odd though, because if he really is Caïn (who also very coincidentally was banned to the land of Nod), then why does he only exist in one dimension (the C&C one) and not in any others (like our universe and the RA2 universe), just like Einstein, Tesla, Stalin and Hitler do?
The fact thát he is Caïn (a religious person) could have to do with this, but then again Adam also exists in all dimensions...

The way I see it all existing dimensions (the ones that exist according to C&C) are the only the ones created by messing with time and thus there'd only exist 3 dimensions now (though the RA2 dimension possibly has yet to be created in Tiberian Incursion and thus wouldn't exist yet), the RA2 one actually being irrelevant in the canon of C&C (because whatever happens in it, doesn't have any effect on the C&C universe). So all dimensions have a common history (seeming the dimensions where all one at a certain time, but got separated at a certain point).

Still, if this is the case, Kane would have been in our time line as well (possibly taking control of Hitler's forces... Or maybe he is in our timeline and he's Bin Laden's or even Bush's Right hand ), but he isn't. Kane only appeared after Einstein created the C&C universe by traveling back in time and removing Hitler, so somehow that should be the cause of Kane's escape from the land of Nod.
Maybe when the C&C dimension got created it got a little messed up and something was missing or different which allowed Kane to escape. There might be a better explanation though...

Anyway, it can be explained why Kane wouldn't be in the RA2 universe. During Tiberian Incursion the time machine is either found, constructed or reconstructed (possibly Kane did have blue prints for the time machine -which the chronosphere is also based on- but he just never build it) and someone traveled back in time to prevent Kane from escaping the land of Nod; which also created RA2 (a time line in which Kane doesn't exist, but in which another madman takes his place). The appearance of Yuri also has to be explained somehow though...