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 A Few Questions, thinking of getting back into the game |
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 Sep 9 2009, 12:23 AM
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Technician
Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 8-September 09
Member No.: 1,629
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Hello.
I recently reinstalled the game and played through the campaigns for nostalgia's sake. (its probably been at least 8 years) I'm kinda thinking about checking out online play if there is still an active group. I just had a few questions.
1) Is the game generally considered balanced? The latest version seems alright, (especially compared to 1.0) but I want to be sure there isn't something I am unaware of.
2) Are any of the mods designed for competitive play, or are they mostly single player oriented? I have tried a few, and most of them just turn the game into a giant mess of 500 units, several of which are usually terribly balanced. (pinpoint accuracy high powered artillery anyone?)
3) Are there any mods that make the AI half way decent? You can't execute rushes on them, you can't tech evenly with them, and yet...its completely hopeless at actually attacking. (or defending itself late game..)
4) Additionally, is there any mod that works on improving unit AI? Because some of it makes me want to scratch my eyes out. Jump troopers landing when units that can shoot ground are still right next to them, or units not automatically attacking enemy buildings unless specifically ordered is especially frustrating when your trying to manage several things at once.
4) And finally, are there any mods that help out with the outdated interface. Trying to scroll through 30 units to find the one your looking for is a pain. Is there a way to make the pics smaller so you can increase the number of units visible? Is there a way to force the game to sort the unit types out? I.E. all infantry/all vehicles/all aircraft/other abilities regardless of when they become available as tech options?
It does look like there are a lot of people here who still enjoy the game. So at least the game has an active (if small) community. I'm kinda hoping that either multiplayer or a well designed mod can keep my interest.
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Sep 9 2009, 01:32 PM
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Tick Tank
Group: Members
Posts: 690
Joined: 4-June 07
From: Finland
Member No.: 957
Alliance: Nod
Favorite game: Tiberian Sun
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Welcome to TiberiumWeb. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM)  I recently reinstalled the game and played through the campaigns for nostalgia's sake. (its probably been at least 8 years) I'm kinda thinking about checking out online play if there is still an active group. I just had a few questions. There are still about a hundred players in XWIS/WWOnline, but they play mostly some foolish flat rock maps with foolish unit modifications. If you want some real multiplayer, you could ask someone to organize a Hamachi network and to play with you (well, you can also play with XWIS, but it's a bit slower from my experience). QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) 1) Is the game generally considered balanced? The latest version seems alright, (especially compared to 1.0) but I want to be sure there isn't something I am unaware of. I don't know the general opinion about base TS, but at least in my opinion it's quite balanced. However, the expansion pack, Firestorm, makes the game really unbalanced with GDI getting artillery units and the drop-pod superweapon. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) 2) Are any of the mods designed for competitive play, or are they mostly single player oriented? I have tried a few, and most of them just turn the game into a giant mess of 500 units, several of which are usually terribly balanced. (pinpoint accuracy high powered artillery anyone?) There are still a few mods in progress which have some elements for competitive play, like tournament maps etc. However I don't know about the older, finished mods. Some mods are also singleplayer oriented. Also, some (probably most) modders have a personal mod, which usually makes TS more what they wanted it to be. I am one of these who have a personal mod, which makes TS more balanced while adding lots of things. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) 3) Are there any mods that make the AI half way decent? You can't execute rushes on them, you can't tech evenly with them, and yet...its completely hopeless at actually attacking. (or defending itself late game..) I don't know about any mods which aim only for making the AI better. There are a few mods in progress which will feature smarter AI, but they're not released yet. However, some modders' personal mods (see answer on 2)) have much better AI than normal TS, but most modders will never release their personal mods. If you want, I could upload an older version of my personal mod's AI here. Also, it's quite easy to modify the AI if you're ready to do it. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) 4) Additionally, is there any mod that works on improving unit AI? Because some of it makes me want to scratch my eyes out. Jump troopers landing when units that can shoot ground are still right next to them, or units not automatically attacking enemy buildings unless specifically ordered is especially frustrating when your trying to manage several things at once. No, I think that's impossible to modify. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) 4) And finally, are there any mods that help out with the outdated interface. Trying to scroll through 30 units to find the one your looking for is a pain. Is there a way to make the pics smaller so you can increase the number of units visible? Is there a way to force the game to sort the unit types out? I.E. all infantry/all vehicles/all aircraft/other abilities regardless of when they become available as tech options? It's not possible to modify the sidebar to make it like RA2's sidebar. However, you can increase the default maximum resolution from 800x600 to something like 1280x1024, which will make the whole game look much better (and it will also make the interface easier to handle). Note that rising the resolution to something very high will require a faster computer. I personally like TS's older interface, it allows me to build both vehicles and infantry fast instead of the sidebars of newer C&C's. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 9 2009, 03:23 AM) It does look like there are a lot of people here who still enjoy the game. So at least the game has an active (if small) community. I'm kinda hoping that either multiplayer or a well designed mod can keep my interest. Yes, this forum has quite a small community, but there are several other C&C fansites. One of the most popular is PPM (www.ppmsite.com/forum), but in my opinion some people there aren't as friendly as in here (spammers/trolls are quite common there) and this forum also has this cool skin  I think this is my longest post ever 
This post has been edited by ^Rampastein: Sep 9 2009, 01:37 PM
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Sep 9 2009, 08:14 PM
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Technician
Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 8-September 09
Member No.: 1,629
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Interesting. I actually prefer the long answer, I did ask a lot of questions and I prefer getting more complete answers, so no objections from me. My biggest problem with game balance seems to be that the game is mostly a bunch of people who play single player in their spare time. (basically what I am doing right now) So its all going to be personal experience on if something is good or bad. There is no statistical records, or tournament replays of what units are used most prominently. (or if that is even a concern) I, for example, disagree with GDI being imbalanced by getting an effective siege unit. Almost every faction in pretty much every game requires something to beat static defenses from beyond their effective range or they end up lacking ways to fight turtlers. So most of the AI and selection boxes are not modable. I was afraid of that. My biggest complaint with the game is probably just how badly some of it is written compared to more modern games. Guess I will be practicing my APM for a while to be better at babysitting units.  As for modding the game myself, I doubt I have the time. Job/School/Friends take up most of my time right now. There does seem to be a lot of at least graphically interesting games out there right now, although they look pretty dormant right now as well unfortunately. Hopefully one of them can perk up my interest in the game. As for Hamachi, yeah I'm interested in playing a few games with you if your willing to host. I'll PM you a good time if you want, I'm not sure when I will be free for a few hours right now. Although personally I can't see how you prefer the old style scrollbar to the new one. I think simply hotkeying your barracks/warfac and then selecting the unit you want would be far faster than scrolling upward through 15 options. Shrug, different preferences I guess. Thanks A Lot!
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Sep 9 2009, 08:44 PM
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Medium Tank
Group: Administrators
Posts: 639
Joined: 16-November 06
From: Moelv/furnes in Norway
Member No.: 290
Favorite game: Tiberian Dawn
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One of the best released Tiberian Sun mods out there is Tiberian Sun Dusk. It has pretty good balance and a challenging AI. I can't think of other "balanced" TS mods, but there is always good old Tiberian Sun Retro and Tiberian Sun Total War.
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Sep 10 2009, 12:29 AM
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Technician
Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 8-September 09
Member No.: 1,629
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I wasn't impressed with Retro personally. Lemme say that before I continue I have nothing but the highest respect for people who put all this effort into mods. I have done some mapmaking myself for a few other games, and I know how hard it can be to get people to accept, or even try, your ideas. That being said, I disagree completely with the way it was executed. Anytime a mod adds a new unit, my immediate question is 'what is this unit add to the game that the faction lacks." In the case of retro, most of the units were, or at least appear, to be put in simply for the sake of Nostalgia for Tiberian Dawn. I personally feel this just clutters up the game, and creates multiple units who fufill the same role. (I.E. heavy and tick tanks, or artillery and advanced artillery)
I have a variety of other problems with the mod as well, but I really don't feel like taking a piss all over someone else's hard work, especially when I have no plans of making my own mod for public critique. I will, however, try out Tiberian Dusk.
Edit: I have played a few games with TS: Dusk and have thus far been very impressed with the mod. It makes a number of important gameplay changes that are definitely steps in what I consider the right direction. The fact that I actually got overrun by an AI infantry rush left a smile on my face after my first game. (although it gets kinda predictable by the 3rd time) I don't feel that I am yet in a position to judge unit balance, but thus far I have only kudos for the mod designer.
This post has been edited by IntoTheRain: Sep 10 2009, 04:18 PM
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Sep 12 2009, 12:58 AM
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Technician
Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 8-September 09
Member No.: 1,629
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Dusk has some very solid ideas, earlier (and larger) pavement, longer wall sections, more efficient aircraft, faster mcvs, etc. It has a couple problems, specifically the sheer number of crashes that I am getting. Its difficult to finish a game at all without one occurring. Whether this is on my end or the mods I'm not sure.
Balance wise, I think its a mistake to make infantry unable to be run over by vehicles. Part of the base price of infantry is assuming that it is vulnerable to being run over by vehicles. Removing this weakness makes them extremely cost efficient, and only some extremely hard counters (like harpies) give you any reason to build anything else. I can't confirm any of this of course because my only opponent right now is the comp, which plays nothing like a real person, so this ends up being speculation on my end. (it doesn't help that the comp likes to rush you with 3k worth of infantry..which makes it even harder to try and stay objective) Whatever, its a dead mod so its pointless complaining. (although theraputic!)
As for Online games, I'm struggling to get online right now. Working on it, and I hope to be online within the week. I am however, probably to busy to play during the week, but I would love to play during the weekends if your interested. I don't use either instant message program, but I can create an account if you want on MSN. I'm on Central time.
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Sep 13 2009, 03:03 AM
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Medium Tank
Group: Administrators
Posts: 639
Joined: 16-November 06
From: Moelv/furnes in Norway
Member No.: 290
Favorite game: Tiberian Dawn
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QUOTE I wasn't impressed with Retro personally. Lemme say that before I continue I have nothing but the highest respect for people who put all this effort into mods. I have done some mapmaking myself for a few other games, and I know how hard it can be to get people to accept, or even try, your ideas. That being said, I disagree completely with the way it was executed. Anytime a mod adds a new unit, my immediate question is 'what is this unit add to the game that the faction lacks." In the case of retro, most of the units were, or at least appear, to be put in simply for the sake of Nostalgia for Tiberian Dawn. I personally feel this just clutters up the game, and creates multiple units who fufill the same role. (I.E. heavy and tick tanks, or artillery and advanced artillery) Keep in mind that Retro is an "ancient mod" it was first released in 2003 when TS modding was still young.  Retro was the best of the best when it came out, and it had features that others mods at the time could only dream of. QUOTE I tried a few matches in Dusk yesterday, and it crashed randomly TSD never crashed when I played it. 
This post has been edited by Tore: Sep 13 2009, 03:04 AM
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Sep 13 2009, 08:19 PM
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Technician
Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 8-September 09
Member No.: 1,629
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I have only managed to finish 3 game out of the 20 or so I have tried to play with Dusk. It crashes that much. I don't know if its a newer patch, or newer version of windows, but it is definitely frustrating. Retro is a fine mod, I just don't see a particular reason to include units and buildings that are completely overshadowed by another unit in the game. (sandbags vs concrete anyone?) Ramp, I'll try and grab an Xfire account, but I'm pretty busy this week. I have 2 papers due and 2 tests coming up, so I probably won't have time this week. (I'm supposed to be working on my Essay right now  ) I'm having trouble getting the latest patch though. Every time I try to go online it tries to DL it again, so I have to figure out whats going on there first.
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Sep 14 2009, 01:03 PM
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Tick Tank
Group: Members
Posts: 690
Joined: 4-June 07
From: Finland
Member No.: 957
Alliance: Nod
Favorite game: Tiberian Sun
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QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 13 2009, 11:19 PM) I have only managed to finish 3 game out of the 20 or so I have tried to play with Dusk. It crashes that much. I don't know if its a newer patch, or newer version of windows, but it is definitely frustrating. I've only finished matches when I got rushed in the start (every 2nd match  ). I tried to play a 2v2 comp stomp game with a friend of mine during the weekend, bu it crashed just when we were crushing one of the AI players.. really annoying. I doubt it's related to the Windows version, since normal TS works fine even on Windows 7. However, after taking a look at the except.txt I noticed that it's some random error which I've had with many mods before (my personal mod and The Dawn of the Tiberium Age for example). I've fixed the error before when doing some modifications, I'll try fixing it for Dusk but I can't promise anything (I'm not exactly sure what causes the error). Normally I could ask Hyper to check the except.txt, but it's full of 0's and question marks and I don't think it's usable. QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 13 2009, 11:19 PM) Ramp, I'll try and grab an Xfire account, but I'm pretty busy this week. I have 2 papers due and 2 tests coming up, so I probably won't have time this week. (I'm supposed to be working on my Essay right now ) I'm having trouble getting the latest patch though. Every time I try to go online it tries to DL it again, so I have to figure out whats going on there first. Alright, just inform me if/when you grab and Xfire account and we can play when we have time for it. For the latest patch: ftp://ftp.westwood.com/pub/tiberiansun/updates/TS203EN.EXE (assuming you have the English version of TS?). If XWIS asks you to install the patch even after you've installed it, just ignore it. WWOnline/XWIS isn't needed when playing with Hamachi.
This post has been edited by ^Rampastein: Sep 14 2009, 01:13 PM
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Sep 20 2009, 04:26 PM
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Tick Tank
Group: Members
Posts: 690
Joined: 4-June 07
From: Finland
Member No.: 957
Alliance: Nod
Favorite game: Tiberian Sun
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QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 20 2009, 07:10 PM) Alright, I downloaded Xfire and installed today. My username is intotherain2. You could put the username on your profile Anyway, I sent an invitation to you. About XWIS wanting you to get a newer version, a friend of mine has the same problem, I have no idea how to fix it. Also, I managed to fix the TS: Dusk crashes by renaming dusk.dat to Game.exe. I also had to hex-edit the executable and change UDPFIXS.dll to WSOCK32.dll in the executable. Then I deleted UDPFIXS.dll and unzipped the original Understorm TS/RA2 UDP LAN patch to Dusk's directory. I'm not sure why it seems to fix the random IE, but it worked (and I've fixed the same error the same way in The Dawn of the Tiberium Age and in my personal mod). If you want, I could send the fixes I did to you with Xfire.
This post has been edited by ^Rampastein: Sep 20 2009, 04:28 PM
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Sep 28 2009, 12:54 PM
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Tick Tank
Group: Members
Posts: 690
Joined: 4-June 07
From: Finland
Member No.: 957
Alliance: Nod
Favorite game: Tiberian Sun
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QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 27 2009, 11:21 PM) I'd like that a lot Ramp. Unfortunately I am getting completely run over by school right now and don't have time to get on..well ever at this point. Hopefully after this week I should be done with my first round of tests and it should calm down again. Well, I also a few tests/exams in the upcoming weeks, so I'm online quite rarely even during the evenings. However, after about 2 weeks we're going to have autumn holidays, which last for one week. And I'd love to play some matches during the holidays (I'm going to stay home the entire holiday.. although I'm going to have a small LAN party which will last only for two days, so it wouldn't be a problem). QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ Sep 27 2009, 11:21 PM) I can try and get on more in the mornings to see if your on, but it will probably be a few more days. During the normal week (Monday to Friday) evenings are the only suitable times, so you should get online during the afternoons (and I assume that you're at school then?). If you get online at morning it's afternoon for me and then I'm at school If you get online during the weekends at the morning, it would be afternoon for me and it would be a suitable time. Yay, I'm a cyborg now Btw, do you live on the eastern or western states of the US, as far as I know the time difference between the western and the eastern coast is about 2 hours (knowing this would make choosing a suitable time easier). I see that you were on Xfire last night (at least your post above has been posted at 11:21 PM for me), you got on just a bit after I logged off.. but I can't stay at the PC for longer than 11:00 PM (and I usually log off around 10:00 PM). If you could get online a hour or two earlier someday we could play.
This post has been edited by ^Rampastein: Sep 28 2009, 01:14 PM
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