Most unfair unit. Options

[Aro]

Nods Viper.

I just kept thinking is there any nod airborne unit stronger,
Strong as, or that can even hold a candle to the Orca Bomber?

No Of course not,
Because this unit is terribly unbalanced '''IMO'''
(Please notice the way i say IMO)

Heres why i think this::

1) Its actualy quite fast for a heavy bomber,
2) Its weapon is deadly to infantry, Vehicles and buildings,
Where as the banshee is only good against vehicles and Buildings.
3) Its Too cheap for what it actualy is.
4) It can do a large scale of damage with one Swoop
Where as the banshee needs all 3 swoops to do anything remotly decent.
5) In Groups theyre practicaly unstoppable.

I just wanted to say that...

[Crash]

Some units imo can be like super units which isnt very balanced. Like The nod artillery .... in normal ts of course. And the orca bomber is also good unit.

[Vintriaz]

Hmm... I agree with you on this one. due to the nature of the banchee, It's energy cannon should be a bit more powerful than what it currently is. the orca bomber is a bit too fast for what it is as well. Overall i was a quite dissapointed in the TS airforce section. some things just don't make sence like mentioned, or, there's bugs to be fixed like the dropship for example. And what ever possesed GDI to Rid themselves of the A-10?! loosing it & the AGT is sure madness! IMO anyway. :blink:

I personally thought that the disrupter & juggernaut are what mainly potrays mondo unfairness. the Jugger has more firepower & is $25 less expencive than nod artillary. Now I say.. "WTF IS WITH THAT!?!?" mechs would cost more to build than tanks. so why is this exeption allowed? It's ilogical. I am aware that FS is usually excluded form TS discusion, but it is a part of TS as far as I'm concerned.

I've always had bad luck with disruptors. Whenever the enemy has them, just 2 can nearly cripple me. But when I try the same, They die way quicker than they should plus i barely scratch the opposition. (based on simalar opposition) But that might due to the fact i'm just not good at using such units.

[Lin Kuei Ominae]

I agree that the Orcabomber is quite op. But for that we can mod the game
e.g. my banshee costs 2000 and has a emp plasma gun. it emp's the target for 10seconds and does 50 points of damage per shot. 1 banshee can this way kill a titan in 2 ammo runs (so 1 is still left).
and due to the additional emp effect no target can escape or shoot back. :biggrin:

[Corsair]

Well thats good that you didn't make it super-powerful LKO

But I have to agree, the Orca Bomber is pretty tough

I usually don't make a big air force anyway, I like ground battles (with maybe a small mix of Orca Fighter support)

[ShDwBoRn]

yah, the orca bomber is unbalanced, in a mod i made a little while ago i fixed it with the addition of several new units (for nod, and GDI). I was going to post the mod (which has no name), but my computer crashed and i lost all the files. It wouldn't have been an AMAZING mod, but it was pretty good (mostly just more aircraft for both sides and a few ground units). The main problem with the orca B is its fire power and speed.

The unit i added to the nod was a handy aircraft called a CF-19 Tactical Strike Aircraft. It had it's own helipad that a had SAM launcher on the side. As for the CF thing, i still don't remember why Canada had joined Nod...

[Ixith]

meh the orca bomber is pretty over powered but thats why in normal TS Nod had the nice artillery for their over-powered unit.

really i think the Orca B is a little too fast for its nature of being a heavy bomber but a lot of sams and say good bye to them with ease. i guess that goes with all aircraft though. but Banshees work wonders in large groups really.

also......if you want to see overpowered...i once took one of the voxels that was "scrin" like from here...(i forget who made it or what it was called) and i gave it the tag
ammo=-1 now that was fun.

personally if i had to put 2 overpowered units for each team it would be something like this:

GDI
-Disrupter
-Orca Bomber
Nod
-Artillery
-ermm crap.....maybe the Cyborg Commando....although i really wouldnt consider him overpowered as hes a special unit you can only get one of and the Ghost stalker technically is equal to him...

but really these are only over powered when used in large numbers just like any other unit.

now under powered...thats a whole other story. GDI-APC (cause it kinda sucks compared to the Subterranean one plus the original APC at least had a gun) Nod-Devils Tongue

[Aro]

Basicaly, you all agree with me...
i knew i was right, it sucks...
Yet again why do i care, i do not even play any games much anymore...
I'm a little more concerned about my social life.

[Bittah Commander]

I actually wouldn't say there's anything really overpowered in TS. Both sides just have their own powerful units (weather in speed, armor or firepower), which is exactly what balances the game, without making both sides prettymuch equal and thus dull.

Banshees are actually more useful for taking out some strong structures (like the Construction Yard, War Factory, or Tiberium Refinery), because it needs just as much runs (and the same number of Banshees as you would when using Orca Bombers) to take them out. This means the Banshees actually would have 1 run left, which indeed usually isn't enough to take anything out, but this does mean you could take a strong building out needing less Banshees (though using more runs) than you would need if you were using Orca Bombers.

The Nod APC is indeed a lot better than GDI's, but that's just what sets the sides apart. Where Nod would send in a bunch of Subterranean APCs filled with Engineers, Cyborgs (and Cyborg Commando) or/and Rocket Infantry, GDI would send in a couple Carryalls carrying a Mammoth Mk II, Disruptors and/or APCs filled with engineers, a Ghost Stalker or whatever.

I don't think the Disruptor is overpowered either, because for the Disruptor to damage, it really needs to get into the base first, which should be impossible without a Carryall if your opponent knows what he's doing (and has his base defended properly), unless you take out his defenses first. If you do send in the Disruptor with a Carryall, it runs great risk of being shot down and once it gets to the surface (seeming it's only 1 unit), it can be taken out easily if your opponent has his defenses or units at the right place; where nothing aside from an EMP Cannon (which can be avoided by sending in a couple empty APC's or Devil's Tongues as decoys first) would stop a Subterranean APC from getting to the base.

In short, for GDI frontal attacks are easier to preform and are sneaky attacks more risky.
For Nod sneaky attacks are easier to preform and are frontal attacks less effective.
Aside from this Nod also has better defense and can hide their entire base, but relies more on power, where GDI has a bit weaker defence, but won't suffer greatly from low power.

In the end it's all perfectly balanced if you ask me

Now about Firestorm... Juggernauts might indeed have more firepower than Nod's artillery, but that's only versus buildings. The juggernauts suck as defense and end up damaging your own units and structures.
The Cyborg Reaper appears to be the same; near friendly units or structures it ends up damaging them as well, but when attacking it has quite alot of firepower (more than the Titan and is also strong versus both vehicles and infantry, which makes up for it's higher price).

[Corsair]

I agree with that

However, since I'm GDI biased, if you think GDI has the upper hand in Tiberian Sun my mod would only reinforce that

Although I did add bit more health to certain Nod units...

What can I say, I want my new units and I want my big battles

[Blacksilence]

Banshees are actually more useful for taking out some strong structures (like the Construction Yard, War Factory, or Tiberium Refinery), because it needs just as much runs (and the same number of Banshees as you would when using Orca Bombers) to take them out. This means the Banshees actually would have 1 run left, which indeed usually isn't enough to take anything out, but this does mean you could take a strong building out needing less Banshees (though using more runs) than you would need if you were using Orca Bombers.


On the internet the build a quick base then come with 16 bashee and destroy your Conyard.
That sucks.

[Aro]

Thats not the way i see it...

The orca bomber drops like 5 bombs in one run,
And if structers are close to each other, Does alot more damage...

Banshees on the other hand only have three direct shots at one structure...

And with two runs with an orca bomber does one hell of alot more damage...

[Machine]

About the juggernauts, I don't really think that them make Nod's artillery useless, they are way too dangerous for my own units, and also, by some weird reason I always needed more juggernauts to destroy a building than if I attacked with artilleries (I even tend to build Nod artilleries if I had captured a Nod base):wacko:, but maybe it was just an accidental edit in rules.ini, anyways I removed them, always saw them like an insult to the cooler titan :biggrin:

In short, I think that TS (Note I wrote TS, not FS), is well balanced. Anyway I've always thought that orca bombers, were quite usefull, specially against GDI. That's not a reality anymore in my mod , I hardly use air units anymore Nod sams are too dangerous, and GDI's AA units too :biggrin:

[Nintyuk]

if they made the FS artillery more accurate it would be fair against the jugger

[Aro]

Focus...

The Orca Bomber is the counterpart to the Banshee in my opinion...
So therefore, there should be something that makes them equal, and i'm not just refering to strength.

Sure, the banshee is fast and 'slightly' cheaper.
But it takes longer to reload than the orca bomber, and is just simply weaker than the bomber.

Also i have recently discovered in the rules.ini the orca bomber is stronger armour wise.

And why is this when the Nod SAM is just as strong as the GDI SAM?

[DoomToHel]

hmm that is very strange you ask the hardest questions to answer i never thought of the orca bomber strentgh and reloading ....

maybe i never noticed it ..

This post has been edited by DoomToHel: Jan 25 2007, 09:38 PM

[confactor]

"Banshees are actually more useful for taking out some strong structures (like the Construction Yard, War Factory, or Tiberium Refinery), because it needs just as much runs (and the same number of Banshees as you would when using Orca Bombers) to take them out. This means the Banshees actually would have 1 run left, which indeed usually isn't enough to take anything out, but this does mean you could take a strong building out needing less Banshees (though using more runs) than you would need if you were using Orca Bombers.
"

bittah is right, not only are they more effecient at destroying key tactical structures, but they are also significantly cheaper, and faster meaning they take less damage as well. The bomber was designed to attack small more heavily armored structures like helipads, barracks, missile silos, emps, and most importantly power plants. The problem though is that it was not balanced for its purpose and ended up being a best for defence against nods infantry units that come from underground. the bomber just fills the gap in gdis anti-infantry. as a base attacker it is impotent, they can't survive extended runs and require carefull navigation for best use. you cant really use it to bomb power plants either because the build speed is too fast rendering the ideal strategy against nod unacheivable. The bomber is just like alot of other gdi units in that they dont do anything very well, except for the specials. That all I have to say about the orca bomber really.

[Aro]

The main thing about the Orca bomber that i hate is its ability to wipeout a massive army of infantry.
They can do that with great ease mite i add.

But oh well, I have just edited the INI files to make it fair, so i wil stop whining about it being unbalanced.

But you have all made some pretty good points, Bittah especialy.

[The Fish]

A bunch of Orca Bombers can win you the game; you just hold out long enough to make two squads of five and send one to destroy the enemy War Factory and the other to destroy their Construction Yard and they're totally crippled.

The Kirov in RA2 had a similar effect. It was so slow but was still armoured enough that you could still get deep into your opponent's base and cripple them.

In that respect it's just a quirk of the game; just like you always have in the back of your mind that your super-unit might be taken out by a Hunter Seeker or that they could Ion Cannon your power and rush you, you know that you have to have a bunch of Attack Cycles or Hover MLRSs(sp?) around to repel ultra powerful air attacks.

[Blacksilence]

is it not fun to play fair and not destroy a camp in 2 min with orca bombers or banshees

This post has been edited by Black hawk: Apr 6 2007, 01:23 PM

[Aro]

Banshees are actually more useful for taking out some strong structures (like the Construction Yard, War Factory, or Tiberium Refinery), because it needs just as much runs (and the same number of Banshees as you would when using Orca Bombers) to take them out. This means the Banshees actually would have 1 run left, which indeed usually isn't enough to take anything out, but this does mean you could take a strong building out needing less Banshees (though using more runs) than you would need if you were using Orca Bombers.

Aro:: Yes, i agree with this, that was posted above... However, the reason i posted this topic in the first place was because, that the Orca Bomber CAN simply win you the game...

A bunch of Orca Bombers can win you the game; you just hold out long enough to make two squads of five and send one to destroy the enemy War Factory and the other to destroy their Construction Yard and they're totally crippled.

Now the orca bomber has two rounds... Correct? So, it flys into a base dropping 5 bombs with each round, each one doing quite a large ammount of damage. Target one, Construction yard, gone, Target two, War factory gone... now with a bit of luck, the player can still win with infantry... But the orca bombers re-load, and simply destroy huge crouds of infantry with one round... It's rediculous... While banshee's do not have this ability... Alough, Banshee's have 3 rounds... Target 1, Construction yard, gone, Target 2, War factory, gone and finaly, Target 3, Barracks, gone... So i guess this balances it out a little bit... However, i'm still not a huge fan of the fact that orcas drop alot of bombs with one round which can hit several targets, while the banshee only has the ability to shoot at one target with each round.



This post has been edited by Aro: Apr 6 2007, 02:19 PM

[Team Black]

not only that, but any engineers you put by those buildings to repair them will get killed by the orca's bombs.

[ORCACommander]

wrong a single ORCAB can not take out a conyard or WF by itself it just needs 2. I think the Reaper is very unbalanced. It got an anti inf weapon that disables them
highly effective against air, vehicles and buildings.

[blai]

In that respect it's just a quirk of the game; just like you always have in the back of your mind that your super-unit might be taken out by a Hunter Seeker or that they could Ion Cannon your power and rush you, you know that you have to have a bunch of Attack Cycles or Hover MLRSs(sp?) around to repel ultra powerful air attacks.

Actually, Attack Cycles don't start with anti-air.

[Aro]

wrong a single ORCAB can not take out a conyard or WF by itself it just needs 2. I think the Reaper is very unbalanced. It got an anti inf weapon that disables them
highly effective against air, vehicles and buildings.

What i mean't, was that a herd of Orca bomber's can win you the game... Not just a single bomber... Obviously.

[Yoshi]

I always hated Orca Bomber/Banshee rushes. Takes the fun out of multiplayer games. :\ Wish the EMP cannon could take down aircraft units or force them to land.

As for the Juggernaut, I went and had a Jugger and an Artillery go 1 on 1, and my Jugger lost. >.>

This post has been edited by Yoshi: Apr 6 2007, 06:03 PM

[Aro]

I don't know why everyone likes the Juggernaught so much, i don't like them. They're alot more in-acurate than the good old-fashioned artilleries, and are actualy more expensive when they're not as good... Now what's up with that?

And Yoshi, i agree with you completly when you say that it ruins the fun in multiplayer games... There is no sense in even having the high-tech matches, if no one even uses what they can get... Kind of like the Nod engineer rush. People say it's all that Nod can do, but if you actualy use your head, there is a large majority of tactics they can use... As with the GDI in Multi-player... It's either the hated Orca Bomber herd, or even better (sarcasm), The carry-all and disruptor combination...




This post has been edited by Aro: Apr 6 2007, 06:28 PM

[The Fish]

Actually, Attack Cycles don't start with anti-air.

Seriously? Woahhh... been playing as GDI too much....

[Sir Modsalot]

I think the Reaper is very unbalanced. It got an anti inf weapon that disables them
highly effective against air, vehicles and buildings.

Actually, Cyborg Reapers suck against just about all moving targets, since their cluster missiles are "ranged" (as dictated by firestrm.ini), they explode before they reach the target unless it's moving toward them or sitting still. They're also lightly armored (although they heal quickly in tiberium fields) and the locomotor they use means they crawl very slowly when changing direction while already moving. The Disruptor's weapon is EXTREMELY effective against Reapers (and, well... everything else lol), and having a group of them fire on a single Reaper will instantly promote all of them since the ambient damage of the sonic wave will "kill" the Reaper repeatedly after it runs out of health until it explodes. Which brings me to say that Orca Bombers are overpowered, but don't work well against heavier units. I think the only unit more overpowered is the Disruptor. It has heavy armor (can take THREE hits from a CyCommando before dying), a weapon that does extremely heavy damage to ALL ground targets and can even penetrate Firestorm defense walls, and decent speed. Its only disadvantage is no AA weapon, which IMO is about equal to the Reaper having crappy AA capabilities.

This post has been edited by Sir Modsalot: Apr 7 2007, 03:54 AM

[The Fish]

Actually, Cyborg Reapers suck against just about all moving targets, since their cluster missiles are "ranged" (as dictated by firestrm.ini), they explode before they reach the target unless it's moving toward them or sitting still. They're also lightly armored (although they heal quickly in tiberium fields) and the locomotor they use means they crawl very slowly when changing direction while already moving. The Disruptor's weapon is EXTREMELY effective against Reapers (and, well... everything else lol), and having a group of them fire on a single Reaper will instantly promote all of them since the ambient damage of the sonic wave will "kill" the Reaper repeatedly after it runs out of health until it explodes. Which brings me to say that Orca Bombers are overpowered, but don't work well against heavier units. I think the only unit more overpowered is the Disruptor. It has heavy armor (can take THREE hits from a CyCommando before dying), a weapon that does extremely heavy damage to ALL ground targets and can even penetrate Firestorm defense walls, and decent speed. Its only disadvantage is no AA weapon, which IMO is about equal to the Reaper having crappy AA capabilities.

Although very powerful it's best defended against with bombers, EMP and infantry (because it'll chew up defences). It's annoying but more fallible than say bomber rushes which are very hard to defend against without firestorm walls or many, many SAMs...