Tiberium as a form of money?, Can you satisfy my curiosity? Options

[KajiTetsushi]

I thought of it this way: Tiberium, as we all know it, is a form of fund-raising object in C&C. But how does it work? Sure, we all do the same thing:
Collect Tiberium with our teeny-weeny resourcers, "refine" it, turn it into cold-hard cash, build a massive army and dominate the world. (Oops!)

But what does Tiberium have to do with all that? How can Tiberium help the world's economy? I can understand how Nod uses it for Tiberium-based weapons or that GDI uses some Tiberium as materials for a cure-giving experiment and get paid by the United Nations for any major achievement, but that's not the point here. Nod doesn't always use Tiberium to make weapons. And noting the huge amounts of Tiberium GDI already gathers per day, it'd be downright unusual to store all that for research!

If Tiberium were to be converted to shiny emeralds, sapphires or rubies (Implemented by mods using red Tiberium) and then sold in public, basically, everyone would already have some of them by now (Look at me - all wrapped up in shiny jewels - made from that same malignant growth that killed my folks! ).

So... can anyone speculate how poisonous crystals turn to useful cash? (Just curious - I'm not trying to defile the story of C&C.)

P.S.: This topic can fit anywhere within the C&C game series, so it'd be unfair if I placed them in one of the three and therefore, I placed it here in General Discussion. If this topic is in the wrong place, feel free to relocate it.

This post has been edited by ChrisIchikawa: Feb 15 2007, 06:41 AM

[Team Black]

I remember reading in the TS manual - Tiberium leeches all the minerals from the soil, and so when it is 'refined', these materials are extracted from the tiberium and can be used as resources (probably iron, mostly idk ) whatever materials they can't build with, they probably sell.?..??
Blue tiberium sucks up even more material from the ground, which makes it more valuable because there's more material in it to extract. Also because it contains more material inside it, it has enough potential energy to make it explosive.
It also has radioactivity to mutate stuff; trees that spread 'tiberium spores', biological stuff into visceroids, all that fun stuff. I think westwood originally had the idea that it could be some kind of plant. But then if it's alien, it could be whatever in heck it wants to I guess...
But then EA turned tiberium into some kind of idiotic kryptonite stuff for C&C3, I have no clue what explaination they have for it now.

[Clazzy]

Team Black got the crux of it. Tiberium leaches materials from the ground and then the crystals may be harvested and the materials extracted. That's it, really.

[Disturbed]

Well they explain it all on The First Decade (Which is total crap by the way...) Bonus DVD. Louis Castle simply gives the explanation of it:

'Tiberium is a substance, a gift if you will from outerspace, sent by an intelligent race... It leaches valuble minerals such as: Gold, platinum, Nickel and Iron from the ground, but alough it allows you to make some quick resources, it also turns out to be quite Toxic, which can give anything organic some nasty rusults.'

Hope this answered your question . Yes, i know Team Black already posted about it, but seeming as its a quote from the founder of Westwood studios, i thought it'd be a good idea to post it.


Disturbed.

[Machine]

What Disturbed and Team Black said is right

But there's something that has always bothered me; In dawn is understandable that it could be used as an efficient money generating resource (low competence in market = high prices); but in TS this power should have been reduced, since most of the world is covered by tiberium, GDI and Nod can't have the monopoly over it. So it, basicly, shouldn't be used as a money generating resource, since most of the world would have an easy access to it, making it's price to be lower in the market (more market competence = lower prices), being in no way a sustentable economic resource.

Maybe this could be argued by saying that in TS both armies just extract the materials from tiberium to use them, and not to sell them, and that the credits, it's just a methaphor about the amount of materials you have.

Now the question is, does someone a better explanation why tiberium is still a sustentable resource in times of TS and TW?



I know that I went a bit off-topic, but this still fit with the title of the topic

[Corsair]

But there's something that has always bothered me; In dawn is understandable that it could be used as an efficient money generating resource (low competence in market = high prices); but in TS this power should have been reduced, since most of the world is covered by tiberium, GDI and Nod can't have the monopoly over it. So it, basicly, shouldn't be used as a money generating resource, since most of the world would have an easy access to it

Well, everyone still needs the ability to mine it, it could be growing in their backyard but they don't have a harvester and a refinery

Which no man living in a little house could possibly have, so like oil, they call the GDI... the GDI come and build a refinery in their backyard... and now no one in their neighborhood can sleep anymore :biggrin:

This post has been edited by Corsair: Feb 15 2007, 02:41 PM

[Aro]

Well IMO, i thing the only sensible resource is the Gems and Gold in RA1 and RA2, being as there is an ore mine nearby, it is easy to get that stuff from the ground.

I never liked the idea of Tiberium to be honest.
I always thought it'd of just been simpler if it was all Ore and Gems.

Did you guys know RA1 was originaly an expansion pack to TD?

That is what really confuses me, if thats the case, why is there no Tiberium in RA1?
Tiberium being very valuble, but also being highly poisonous... I mean really, what the hell?

That would mean if you wore a platinum and gold chain you would get poisoned... right?

[Nod Strike]

Yeah, I agree with Aro. It's like anyone can use it so it's no longer so valuable.

Offtopic:

Why did you change your name to Aro, Nods Viper?

[ShDwBoRn]

it's not really money, they extract minerals from the tiberium (which sucks minerals such as iron out of the ground) then the minerals are used to construct buildings/vehicles/weapons and some is sold to private companies for research. The money from selling tiberium then is used to enlist soldiers and pilots for the vehicles. So it isn't really money it's closer to resources which are sold for money. Credits represent resources by their value in money.

[Corsair]

That would mean if you wore a platinum and gold chain you would get poisoned... right?

I'm not sure about the way Tiberium is poisonous, the way Tiberium 'mines' minerals from the ground could make the elements in the minerals isotopes

So, GDI and Nod mine the minerals/elements from the Tiberium and give it the correct amount of neutrons then it wouldn't be radioactive/poisonous anymore (so you could wear your gold necklace )

I'm not sure, I bet Bittah Commander would know though

This post has been edited by Corsair: Feb 15 2007, 03:41 PM

[Roani52]

Well, it's sure Tiberium is poisonous...
I think it has an unstable isotope of that unknown part of tiberium which sends radioactive waves from it, where infantry get poisoned of...

And when it's refined, the unstable isotope is splitted of the rest, and gets cracked to ore, iron and/or other necessary stuff.

[Corsair]

Well, the thing about radioactivity is that in all isotopes that have more neutrons than usual, the neutrons shoot out from the center of the atom like bullets (which is why we use it to kill cancer cells) - because there isn't enough room (but it also causes tumors and cancer cells)

It wouldn't really make sense that tiberium causes the mutations on people like in Tiberian Sun just because it's an alien mineral with unstable isotopes (which is the flaw in my idea and yours)

The radiation waves only cause the mutations that occured like at Hiroshima/Nagasaki or Chernobyl (not mutants with green crystals on mutants faces)

So, our idea would work... if there weren't mutants... but there are mutants that are mutated by something abnormal so there's something we're missing

This post has been edited by Corsair: Feb 16 2007, 04:46 AM

[Team Black]

I think that it's because tiberium is not only a mineral, but something like a living plant as well, with its ability to grow & reproduce. As a parasitic plant-thing, it uses radiation and such to mutate the DNA of other organisms in order to spread itself further. It gets its 'food' from minerals in the ground, which would account for the leeching...

it is, after all, alien.

[Aro]

Why did you change your name to Aro, Nods Viper?

Cause Aro is my name, and you can still call me Nods Viper if you like.

(so you could wear your gold necklace )

Eheh, i don't wear gold.

But i still stick with it, i do not like the whole story of Tiberium, would've made more sense if they just began with ore from the beggining.
But then i guess that would've wrecked the whole series... We never know.

This post has been edited by Aro: Feb 15 2007, 04:36 PM

[Corsair]

But i still stick with it, i do not like the whole story of Tiberium, would've made more sense if they just began with ore from the beggining.
But then i guess that would've wrecked the whole series... We never know.

Well, that's the good thing about Tiberian Sun, we can mod it to ore! Bwahaha

But, yes, it would ruin the original storyline

Although... ::imagines mutants with gold growing off their faces::

[vOi!king ship]

First of all, Nods Viper, RA1 is a prequel to TD, not an expansion pack

And Tiberium makes better sence than gold and gems getting dumped on the ground, doesn't it? It's an aliend substance, giving you easilly accesible minerals, which can be used for agriculture, hydroponics etc. and metals for a war and peace time ecomony.

[Creagor]

Louis Castle simply gives the explanation of it:

'Tiberium is a substance, a gift if you will from outerspace, sent by an intelligent race... It leaches valuble minerals such as: Gold, platinum, Nickel and Iron from the ground, but alough it allows you to make some quick resources, it also turns out to be quite Toxic, which can give anything organic some nasty rusults.'

What the hell? Gold platinum nickel and Iron? The only one on that list which is on the "official" (as in, from the manual) list of tiberium chemical compounds is Iron...

Tiberium composition

* Phosphorus: 42.5%
* Iron: 32.5%
* Calcium: 15.25%
* Copper: 5.75%
* Silica: 2.5%
* Unknown: 1.5%

Tiberium gas composition

* Methane: 22%
* Sulphur: 19%
* Naphthalene: 12%
* Argon: 10%
* Isobutane: 6%
* Xylene: 2%
* Unknown: 29%

I never liked the idea of Tiberium to be honest.
I always thought it'd of just been simpler if it was all Ore and Gems.

Did you guys know RA1 was originaly an expansion pack to TD?

That is what really confuses me, if thats the case, why is there no Tiberium in RA1?
Tiberium being very valuble, but also being highly poisonous... I mean really, what the hell?

That would mean if you wore a platinum and gold chain you would get poisoned... right?

Dont like the idea of tiberium!

As said, RA1 comes before TD, so tiberium had not come to earth at that time, hence no tiberium. Tiberium is poisonous in its raw form - once the minerals, lets say Iron,have been removed, they do not pose a threat - it'd just be like holding a lump of Iron - much safer than holding a lump of tiberium.

I'm not sure about the way Tiberium is poisonous, the way Tiberium 'mines' minerals from the ground could make the elements in the minerals isotopes

So, GDI and Nod mine the minerals/elements from the Tiberium and give it the correct amount of neutrons then it wouldn't be radioactive/poisonous anymore (so you could wear your gold necklace )

I'm not sure, I bet Bittah Commander would know though

Its the "unknown" (presumably alien) compounds in tiberium that makes it poisonous. It doesent have to be radioactive, just some form of extremley potent mutagen.

GDI and Nod do nothing like what you say,they simply remove the useful stuff from the tiberium, and dispose of the rest (I presume its burnt or somthing, hance the flames coming out of the refinery)

[confactor]

tiberium is way better than ore! I mean, common it glows for crying out loud!

[Aro]

First of all, Nods Viper, RA1 is a prequel to TD, not an expansion pack

Yes sir admiral Smartass.

And i think its Sequal. lol

And creagor, chill out lol.
Disturbed said it was a quote from Louis Castle, so blame him for getting it all wrong.
And nah i don't like it, it don't make sense to me, but thats all IMO of course.

And confactor, just cause somethin' glows, don't make it special.

This post has been edited by Aro: Feb 15 2007, 06:43 PM

[Creagor]

Yes sir admiral Smartass.

And i think its Sequal. lol

And creagor, chill out lol.
Disturbed said it was a quote from Louis Castle, so blame him for getting it all wrong.
And nah i don't like it, it don't make sense to me, but thats all IMO of course.

And confactor, just cause somethin' glows, don't make it special.

Yeah, I meant what the hell towards Louis Castle, supposed tiberium know-all. And RA1 is a prequel, not a sequel, its known fact.

[Team Black]

OK so how about this:

I think that it's because tiberium is not only a mineral, but something like a living plant as well, with its ability to grow & reproduce. As a parasitic plant-thing, it uses radiation and such to mutate the DNA of other organisms in order to spread itself further. It gets its 'food' from minerals in the ground, which would account for the leeching...

it is, after all, alien.

geez I just LOVE being ignored

This post has been edited by Team Black: Feb 15 2007, 10:14 PM

[Slender Mang]

As said, RA1 comes before TD, so tiberium had not come to earth at that time, hence no tiberium. Tiberium is poisonous in its raw form - once the minerals, lets say Iron,have been removed, they do not pose a threat - it'd just be like holding a lump of Iron - much safer than holding a lump of tiberium.

RA1 is accutaly split into another dimension as a result from Einstein shaking Hitlers hand cause RA to become another dimension if you want to go further into it ask bittah

[I_Am]

RA1 is accutaly split into another dimension as a result from Einstein shaking Hitlers hand cause RA to become another dimension if you want to go further into it ask bittah

Isn't the first mission in RA rescuing Einstein? And then They say Einstein made the Weather Control devise(even though Tesla invented it).

This post has been edited by I_Am: Feb 15 2007, 10:13 PM

[Bittah Commander]

RA1 is accutaly split into another dimension as a result from Einstein shaking Hitlers hand cause RA to become another dimension if you want to go further into it ask bittah

Yeah, good thing you're asking me

But no... RA1, TD and TS are in the same dimension. I said Einstein created a new dimension -the C&C universe- when he traveled back in time and erased Hitler from time (as a result of shaking his hand).
By doing this Einstein created a new dimension -the C&C universe- in which Hitler never existed and where Stallin started (a probably even worse) World War II instead.
I did say RA2 happens in another dimension than the C&C universe however.

Anyway, to get on topic...
Tiberium isn't worth anything to anyone but the people who can refine it (which are mostly GDI and Nod). The materials extracted from the tiberium -which obviously aren't toxic, seeming they're separated from the toxic components of the tiberium- are mostly only valuable as build materials (which is what GDI and Nod use to build their structures, units and weapons). Nod is also the only faction who uses tiberium in it's "pure" (well, at least still toxic) form for weapons.

[KajiTetsushi]

Holy! This topic went hot since I posted. With so many explanations too that I go dizzy... :wacko:

So, anyway, I've drawn up a few conclusions from your opinions here. You say Tiberium could be broken down into the more basic components, like iron, for instance - so now I see it is not shiny stuff at all. I heard two ways in which this product can be useful:

1. Sold out in public. But I'd say if Nod and GDI were to monopolize the metal trades themselves, it wouldn't make much sense. I'm sure there ought to be other ways of mining minerals out there and with numerous mining companies too.
2. Used directly as build materials. Cash loaded in your field account is just a representative and rough estimate of the value of minerals you have in stock. I say this one has more logic. Although I wouldn't abandon the fact that both armies would've used some of the metals as mentioned in point #1.

And yeah, as you all say, Tiberium's mystical component is a mutagenic one. I'll say, I'll have to agree with y'all on this one. But the official component list is going to make one hell of a mistake when it ocmes to mutants. Organic beings only have trace amounts of iron and copper.

This post has been edited by ChrisIchikawa: Feb 16 2007, 04:44 AM

[Corsair]

GDI and Nod do nothing like what you say,they simply remove the useful stuff from the tiberium, and dispose of the rest (I presume its burnt or somthing, hance the flames coming out of the refinery)

I was just guessing, I never read how Tiberium was refined in CnC (I lost my little booklet )

[Team Black]

One of the things I liked most about CNC, as opposed to other RTS games like age of empires is the simplicity; it doesnt focus on actual reality, but the gameplay itself. Who really cares if you don't need to get food for infantry, wood for buildings etc.
Westwood made Tiberium as the generic resource, all your needs contained inside it, so you can focus more on owning the other guy and not have to worry s much about housing and al that nonsense like in all those 'build a civilization' type games

[Bittah Commander]

To keep it simple; harvesting tiberium in TS is like harvesting wood, stone, and gold in Age of Empires (I included gold because it's also used like a build material in AoE).
The tiberium itself isn't sold to anyone, but materials extracted from it (and stuff built from it) might be (just like people sell toasters today).

[Slender Mang]

Yeah, good thing you're asking me

But no... RA1, TD and TS are in the same dimension. I said Einstein created a new dimension -the C&C universe- when he traveled back in time and erased Hitler from time (as a result of shaking his hand).
By doing this Einstein created a new dimension -the C&C universe- in which Hitler never existed and where Stallin started (a probably even worse) World War II instead.
I did say RA2 happens in another dimension than the C&C universe however.

Anyway, to get on topic...
Tiberium isn't worth anything to anyone but the people who can refine it (which are mostly GDI and Nod). The materials extracted from the tiberium -which obviously aren't toxic, seeming they're separated from the toxic components of the tiberium- are mostly only valuable as build materials (which is what GDI and Nod use to build their structures, units and weapons). Nod is also the only faction who uses tiberium in it's "pure" (well, at least still toxic) form for weapons.

eh ill get it right some day

[tomb]

I don't really like the (gold/gems) ore from RA. Have you ever seen gold and gems just lying around in such abundance? In RA2 it's even worse: ore and gems in the middle of major cities!

At least Tiberium has some form of explenation about being so abundant.

To be honest: the best resource in C&C are the supplies from Generals. Its just more realistic.