Abstainance-till-marriage, Split from the 'Virgin joke topic' Options

[Team Black]

If I were to change perspectives though to the pharmacist...
If I were him I wouldn't want some dipsick going around planning sex with my daugter behind my back.
Some cock-headed kid is going to risk STDs, pregnancy, emotional instability (if the relationship broke up..), the relationship itself (if the parents found out and they did)- with her just so they can break their @#$% virginity together.
That kid had better pray..he's meeting his maker tonight.

Me I'm a supporter of abstainance-till-marriage, I don't forsee myself ever facing the possibility of a situation like that.

This post has been edited by Team Black: Feb 1 2007, 02:14 AM

[Aztek985]

abstainance-till-marriage

:wacko:

[vOi!king ship]

Holy sh*t. That's very...unrealistic situation. I mean, these days, who doesn't know nearly everything about sex since like 16 at worst case scenario?

[Titan]

Abstainance-till-marriage? Bullcrap! Heck, I'm a Christian myself but that doesn't mean I won't have sex before marriage...

Sorry God, just don't feel like following that tiny rule. As long as you love your GF, I think it's perfectly fine. besides, people don't take marriage seriously at all these days! Divorces everywhere... Same goes for condoms, why the heck does it matter wether the sperm dies in your testicles or in the rubbery protection? :wacko: I honestly can't see myself burning (or whatever the heck is down there in the fiery hole thingy) in hell for that. God: "Noes! You wasted 10^10 sperm cells in your life that would've died anyhow! Now you shall burn! *Dumm-dumm-dumm-dummmmm* "

Holy sh*t. That's very...unrealistic situation. I mean, these days, who doesn't know nearly everything about sex since like 16 at worst case scenario?

No it's not, I'm afraid. Quite a lot of people still think you can get pregnant from a blowjob and similar stuff (like our little fishy friends can survive stomach acid, hahaha, and then somehow end up in the uterus ). Yes, it's crazy.

But to return to you, Black, if they're both virgins, the chance of them having STD's apart from herpes is pretty small, right? Especially when they're using condoms. And why should two young people that love each other refrain from a sexual relationship if they're both ready? Besides, it's a joke, not a debate, geez.

Not because we have opposite points of view, but I think it's a good idea to split this topic in case anybody wants to continue this debate.

[•Tony•]

Team Black, Your one in several million.. But I can respect that.

This post has been edited by •Tony•: Feb 1 2007, 06:06 PM

[Ixith]

must........refrain........from...........making.......a religious bashing.......comment

lol but yes i must agree with Titan there although i do think you must be careful to with things like that. but as long as you and your GF truely do love each other then its fine IMO.

anyways though that was a very good joke. but to think wouldnt the dad have said something when he first saw the boy at his house like right before dinner? or does the dad just not care? XD

[ORCACommander]

its a cliff hanger Ix, fill in the gaps with your imagination

[Team Black]

Yeah we can do a topic split if you want.

Just to make it better known where I stand & why I feel that way..I believe this is a very important subject

First of all there are the reasons I mentoned in the other post
STDs and pregnancy being the most well known reasons for abstainance, but I won't go into those because I bet you've all been breifed exhaustively on the STD
Epidemic by your teachers since grade 5. Yes, oral sex has its risks as well

Also extreemely important to consider is the relationship itself. I hold a strong regard for sexual purity and a great respect for the relationship between a man and a woman.
Off the top of my head, these scripture come to mind:
1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 "For this is the will of God, your sanctiication: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to [act in a way of] sanctification and honor."
2 Timothy 2:22 "Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord with a pure heart"
Genisis 2:24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh"

I believe sex is not something to be lightly tossed around, like some kind of hobby or recreational activity. Sex is a unification -not only physical, but spiritual- a unification of 2 spirits. Now if the relationship were to separate, the connection is forced to break, causing alot of problems and stress and what not, a "void".
In marriage (a REAL marriage, the kind where the couple stays together), then such a separation isn't a problem, as well as the possibility of pregnancy because both the mother & father are there to raise the child.

people don't take marriage seriously at all these days! Divorces everywhere...

Very true, unfortunately. I could go further into the reasons I think why this is happening, but I don't want to get too offtopic. My views can prety much be found in my Love Paradox essay, basically I think it's because relationships are based nowaday's on "recieve-recieve", each person looking to see how much pleasure THEY can get from the relationship, rather than what can they give to the relationship for the SPOUSE'S pleasure...

I'm a Christian myself but that doesn't mean I won't have sex before marriage...

I'm sure you knew this already, but to those who weren't aware - A Christian is a representation of Christ. A follower of Christ. Not a club, not a nationality, not a baseball team, not a "group" to belong to. I'm sure those of you who are alleged "Christians" are not so because of their membership to a church, or because of their crucifix necklace, but because of their devotion to the teachings of Christ, and striving to live them.

God: "Noes! You wasted 10^10 sperm cells in your life that would've died anyhow!

I'm sure you knew already, but sperm-cell saving is NOT a goal of most people who practice abstainance-until-marriage.

Now you shall burn! *Dumm-dumm-dumm-dummmmm* "

To those who weren't aware, the threat of Hell is NOT the motivation for Christians to follow the teachings of Christ - It's primarily the desire to please God, the knowledge that following Christ will live to a more full & joyful live, (i.e. by practicing kindness to enemies, you're able to stay peaceful when otherwise you'd be wanting to fight - a very basic example)

if they're both virgins, the chance of them having STD's apart from herpes is pretty small, right? Especially when they're using condoms.

yes you are correct, the potential for STD is minimal-to-none in that situation. ok I was wrong for that section of the argument. Although...
Chances are that this won't be their only time having sex.. there are hardly cases of "just once". It makes an adiction, if they were to split up, chances are that their next relationships would be sexual, and so forth..increasing the potential for STD.

And why should two young people that love each other refrain from a sexual relationship if they're both ready?

That might depend on your definitions of "love" and "ready". By "love" in this case you would be referring to lust- the same feeling in fact, that you get eating chocolate..A desire for pleasure. As far as I know, every normal human being has a desire for sexual intercourse.
"ready", ready for what? ready to face consequences for their actions (like the kind I listed at the top), ready for pregnancy? I've heard that one before - one of my friends, in fact. She didn't mind the idea of pregnancy [i]before[i/] it happened, then all of the sudden she's with child and she falls apart. The father left her long ago, has @##$ for a job, and can hardly be able to pay child support.
Another thing is in a non-marriage relationship, pregnancy is seen as a problem; an unwanted surprise, and that SHOULDNT BE!!! Human life should never be seen an "inconvenience".
And if they are indeed "ready" - that is, if a pregnancy should happen, both parents have stable jobs, they would be able to support the child, why DON'T they get married?

Risking a ton of grief- possibly lifelong conseqences - just to have a freakin orgasm??? too impatient to wait for an established marriage, blinded by sexual desire, apathetic to the possibility of consequences, "it won't happen to me" type of thinking

Besides, it's a joke, not a debate, geez.

true, and I didn't mean offence to Aro by raining on his joke, but this is a subject I feel pretty strongly about, I just wanted to give another perspective on the situation..

[Titan]

Yes, some true points, however, I'm a christian, I don't go to church, but that has multiple reasons, including very, very bad experiences from me and my family, for example, when my grandma only had a few months to live because of breast cancer, the pastor called us to ask wether my father could act as an interpreter for some French people (my dad's French, ya see). My mother replied by telling him about her mother and that this'd probably be her last christmas (it was almost christmas) so we'd visit the hospital. All he said was: 'Oh damn, where do I find another interpreter now?' .

And my opinion about sex isn't affected by my belief, I won't have intercourse with random people, it must be somebody I really love etc. etc. ,but having a baby will come later. Being ready depends on the couple, 'jibber-jabber' couples (like you said) obviously aren't ready and I wouldn't ever want to have such a bland relationship, just because I want security, not minding every word because I'll have to miss sex for two days, that's not it. Same goes for pleasure, the 'jibber-jabber' couples do really love each other, but their relationship is not too strong. Back when they were hugging and stuff, they truley loved each other. If all people want is sex, they'd all jump out of the window with a big wad of cash and condoms in their pockets, heading for the brothels en-masse (Hahahaha )...

Back to Christianity, I interpret those scriptures it in a different way, if marriage isn't a proper line between ready and not ready anymore, then what is? I'll decide for it myself.

[Clazzy]

Society has had a good 3000-4000 years of progress since those passages were written. Get over it.

[Titan]

Which is why you should interpret them in whatever way you want. At least, the ones that do not really work in our current society. People shouldn't see christians as idiots with a narrow, dogmatic point of view , because we're not

[Clazzy]

People shouldn't see christians as idiots with a narrow, dogmatic point of view, because we're not

Some are, and they are the problem.

[Titan]

You should know that many people don't know they're actually following rules made up by the church, which I don't trust at all. For example, I don't see what is wrong with homosexuals doing their stuff (as long as I'm not involved it's fine with me), even from a biblicial point of view. I searched for some scriptures, but really couldn't find any in the new testament. The old testament heavily condemns it, however, the old testament was written before the new one (Reeeealy? You didn't know that, did you, eh? ) , so I doubt wether the things written in the old testament are all God's ideas (no sex during the menstruation perioid, hahaha, riiight... ). Which is why I only actually properly follow the new testament, directly inspired/written by Jesus' disciples.

And no, I'm not cheating on religion

[confactor]

I think we need to get rid of sex all together. sex is unproductive and is a very inneffecient way to grow a human being. just think, if a child were grown outside of a human being it would would allow said being not to be forced into the burden of being pregnant allowing them to work at their jobs, and continue their normal routines without stress. This would also lessan the stereotype of being the child bearer. Aside from the effeciency of it, no sex eliminates the substantial effort one puts into a relationship to encourage mating and put it toward something much more rewarding.
<>
does spock think humans need sex? I don't think so, its illogical...

[cdmt]

Team Black I admire the stance you have taken on sex before marriage. There are still many people here in the US and the Philippines who still wait til marriage.

Confactor- That was a good one

Speaking of cloning isn't it amazing that dolly's clone was technically as old as she was because of the way in which DNA ages despite being born as a calf?

[The Raven]

personally the before/marriage thing doesn't really affect me. I'll do it when i find the right chick an we're both sure. Which means for me it will probably be before marriage, but still, i'm almost 17 and i havn't done it yet, so its not like all guys have to have sex before they hit a certain age, i know plenty of virgins. Also, i might not be a Christain, but as Titan said, many of the teachings in the old testament were replaced/superceeded by jesus and his disciples' teachings.

This post has been edited by The Raven: Feb 3 2007, 05:22 PM

[Disturbed]

Well you obviously feel really strongly about this. I Do not beleive in sex before marridge, just for the simple reason: It sounds quite lame.
However, you have all made some very good points above, i had no idea some of you where this religious. Admitedly, the whole point in sex before marridge has no real or true meaning, it's just a rule that has nothing to back it up.
Lets look back at what team black said about STD's, sexualy transmited diseases have a massive decrease in the chance of them actualy happening to someone if the couple are both Virgins, Though it has not been lowered an entire 100%, there still lurks the possibility of it happeneing, right?
But as i have said, i beleive the whole thing is bullcrap, but i will not start that as some of you do take this whole thing very seriously.
But do you not think that the relationship itself would get worse because of having sex before marridge?
I Mean i am no expert on the subject as i am not exactly an adult yet and have no current girlfriend, so thats that.
To put this long story short, i do not beleive in it, and i always beleived in doing as you please as long as it does not hurt anybody else.
Now with sex, its a complicated matter, it may hurt someone else not physicaly, but emotionaly, and they not realising it till the next day.
So TitanMarkII and Team Black are both very right in my opinion.

[Hellfire]

I myself don't care if it happens it happens. With my ex she was very religious and wanted to wait so I said fine I put no pressure to it, but in the end she cracked and took me in my sleep It's biological you can only fight it for so long and whatever helps you go longer then better if thats the way you want things to be. I don;t see any reason why marriage is important in being ready to commit to such an act, and personally I beleive it helps the relationship in the end.

[Aro]

I didn't mean offence to Aro by raining on his joke, but this is a subject I feel pretty strongly about, I just wanted to give another perspective on the situation..

Don't worry about it man, no offence take at all.
And i've got to say, i really respect your beleifs, you are one in a million.

Also you've all made some good points.
But my beleif is do as you please, besides commiting crimes.

[Mello]

Oh, jeez. Just, wow. I totally picked the wrong topic to jump into on my first visit for a while.

As a person who can't legally get married to their chosen spouse, I'm gonna hafta say that society and culture have gotten to the point were abstinence till marriage is a pretty shallow goal that isn't working anyhow. What's really needed is better education and for preventative materials to be made more available.

[The DvD]

I know what you mean, Mello ;-)

I believe we have a rule that says 'there will be no discussions on religion or sexuality'. It's in the forum rules:

No discussions on religion please.
This also means, no mention of any god or holy entity, except ofcourse when used in an expression (OMG being the most notorious)

This is to prevent people from insulting eachother. For example, i regard the bible passages from Black and his valuation of them as an insult, while my opinion on this matter may be greatly insulting to him, which is why i won't be posting it here.

Locked.