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> Request for next TD patch, Viceroid
Poskov
post Nov 26 2009, 02:35 AM
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Could the Viceroid sound like a dino, instead of a vehicle?


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Nyerguds
post Nov 26 2009, 11:55 PM
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Hmm... I could patch that in, yes. Kinda silly to give it dino sounds, but I guess it's indeed the best we've got. Better than "yes sir!", anyway tongue.gif

btw, I got a patch discussion thread on the C&C Sector forum. Click the image in my signature to go to it wink1.gif

[edit]

Allright, it's implemented! I already knew where to find the unit respond functions, so it wasn't too hard.

And I must agree, it sounds tons better than "Yes, sir!" laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Nov 27 2009, 12:42 AM


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Poskov
post Nov 27 2009, 12:37 AM
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I've been out of it for a long time... are you that famed TD coding dude?


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Nyerguds
post Nov 27 2009, 01:31 AM
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Heh, I guess I am. I'm the only one working on C&C95, anyway...

As I said, click on my sig image and you'll get a nice overview of what I'm working on atm. And the website of my patch has the release notes of the current patch, which has a complete list of the changes I made so far.

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Nov 27 2009, 01:35 AM


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Poskov
post Nov 29 2009, 03:01 PM
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Nice!

Was just at your sig site; your patch will actually make me dust off my shelved TD again. ESPCIALLY since the viceroid sounds cool now.

4 questions:

1. Can I still edit TD with classic editors? (TibEd, C&CGoldEdit etc.)
2. Is there a chance that people will transmorgify into a viceroid if they die in a Tiberium field?
3. Do the Viceroid and dinos have their sidebar icons? Their icons are in Sole Survivor. This isn't really a problem but would be helpful. Cause I've got some skills in TD too, I've added the icons to the Mobile HQ, Vice, and dinos. I've got their icons for you if you don't have them. (MobileHq, vice, dinos)
4. Could you make unit queing? Like in TS & RA2?

This post has been edited by Poskov: Nov 29 2009, 03:02 PM


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Nyerguds
post Nov 30 2009, 01:37 AM
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1. GoldEdit is an abomination. Don't speak of it, ever tongue.gif
I've actually wondered about this question myself. At the moment, some values that are under 128 can't be put to values higher than 128 because they're stored in a single byte. I could fix all of that, but it would make the game completely incompatible with any existing editors. I'd have to write up a new editor for that... the good part would be that the editor would be rather easy to make, since every unit/structure/infantry item in the section would have exactly the same size.

Still, I'm too busy with school work to invest time into this right now, so I'll just leave it.

2. Nope, sorry. That's changing game mechanics in a way that affects single play. Won't do it. I don't even have a clue how I'd do that. Not to mention, it means that moving a squad of infantry to death on a tib field would spawn 5 visceroids on the same cell. Visceroids are vehicles, not infantry.

3. That would be rather useless. The 4 entirely new units I'm adding to the game have the annoying side effect that the dinos can't be made buildable.

4. Hyper might look into that. Not high on my priority list though. We are looking into a quick build key though. "P" would repeat the last production, and if you press "P" again when it's ready, it'll trigger the Placement. This would help to speed up building walls, since you won't have to move your mouse much at all.


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Poskov
post Nov 30 2009, 08:16 AM
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1. I'll rest it in your capable hands

2. I was thinking maybe like in TS, but with a probability of much lower (maybe 1% chance, so five viceroids would essentially never happen)

Up to you man, but I think you should do it and keep it as a toggle setting. (So with your C&C editor, I could toggle that setting on/off in my killer TD mod)

3. It's just to enhance the quality of the game; for TD mods, like for me.
I've already done it for all those units; I can send you the mix file. (It works ingame and, no bugs)

4. Because I was playing TS & RA2 and then I got back to TD and I was thinking:
This gameplay is much too slow, so I hope you consider it


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Nyerguds
post Nov 30 2009, 02:00 PM
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2. Woah, AND with adding a probability? Man, you're not asking much, are you? tongue.gif (not that generating a random number is that hard wink1.gif )


3. Oh, I know it's for modding purposes, and I got the cameos. I'm just saying that the option to MAKE dinosaurs buildable will be unusable in 1.06c.

The explanation:
For the TDX mod project, I've added entirely new units to the game. Currently there are about 5 or 6 extra units planned for TDX I think. But during testing, we quickly noticed that there was a problem with these added units. The computer player kept building tons of them for no reason. This happened for all units added beyond the end of the normal units list, and the only way to stop this from happening was to make the extra units unbuildable.

To get around this, I replaced the dinosaurs' spots on the units list by these new units, and moved the dinos further to the end. (Note that this is only in the global units index list; it has no relation with the data you can edit in editors. If you edit the dinos there, it'll still be the dinos you're editing)

But that does mean that the dinosaurs are 'overflow units' now: if you enable the Can Be Built switch for them, the AI bug will appear again and the AI will build tons of them.

Note that these new units I added will not be buildable in any patch I release for C&C. I will not do anything to change the game balance. The 4 buildable added units are strictly for modding purposes. For the unbuildable ones, well, I might add some ants into the patch release, and maybe even a rubber boat river transport. For added mission fun tongue.gif

Somewhere in the future I will probably release some sort of editor to edit these new 'blank' units. I might also be able to add more buildable units by moving the Gunboat and Hovercraft to the end of the list, but then I have to do some serious digging to find all special code related to their behaviour.


4. In my opinion, the slow gameplay of C&C1 is exactly what prevents it from becoming a rush fest tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Nov 30 2009, 02:12 PM


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Poskov
post Dec 1 2009, 04:20 AM
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The build problem doesn't affect the viceroid?

Also, will you be working with Sole Survivor too?
Because I've been playing Practise Offline, and it needs some magic (from you)

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 1 2009, 01:41 PM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 1 2009, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 1 2009, 05:20 AM) *
The build problem doesn't affect the viceroid?

Nope, I haven't touched the visceroid. Wouldn't be hard to remake it in one of the new unit slots anyway though.

QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 1 2009, 05:20 AM) *
Also, will you be working with Sole Survivor too?
Because I've been playing Practise Offline, and it needs some magic (from you)


Hyper put it in hi-res once, but I haven't really looked into it.

Mind you, the fact I can edit a lot in TD doesn't mean I can magically edit the same things in SS. When you disassemble a game, it's like trying to figure out bus schedules and routes in a city with no street names. I've already drawn quite a map of C&C95, so I know where to find certain stuff, but any other exe, no matter how similar, still starts from a blank slate when I start working on it.

Also note that I have never touched AI-related stuff. It's horribly complicated, and the only thing related to it I've learned at school is basic path finding (which, I assure you, is already bloody complicated).


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Poskov
post Dec 2 2009, 01:00 AM
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Ahh well...

Don't change any of the viceroid's settings. I need buildable and such for my TD.


Here are some bugs (don't know if you fixed them already)
1. Heli bug fix (when its stats are edited, heli doesn't fly off pad)
2. Helis should be selectable in midair
3. Laser bug fix, when given to a non-obelisk, no beam shows
4. Missile and shell splashs (use the RA graphic and sound)
5. SAM fire sound (it's silent; the fire sound would be nice as the infantry bazooka sound)

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 2 2009, 01:00 AM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 3 2009, 02:27 AM
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1. The heli bug: You probably messed with the aircraft logic tag. Don't mess with that. An air unit is either a controllable heli, or an uncontrollable airplane. That can't be changed. It's related to the way airstrikes and Nod deliveries work.

2. Eh, please consider that I'm mostly still stumbling around in the dark with this... adding entirely new features like selecting units in the air is totally unrealistic.

3. Again, not a clue what causes this, or where the code is that draws the laser.

4. Please be more specific. I don't have a clue what you mean.

5. Hmm, I think there is a SAM sound in the game... should check that. It plays a smoke animation when firing, so I should be able to link a sound to that smile.gif

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Poskov
post Dec 3 2009, 12:57 PM
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1. No, that's not it. I remember a while ago,
I was chatting with (I believe) the creator of TibEd. He said it was related to the heli's speed or something...
Never quite figured it out.

2. & 3. It's ok, you'll get to it when you get to it.

4. When a shell or rocket hits the water, it explodes. Splashes would be more appropriate.
I recommend using the RA splash graphic and sound effect.

5. Sounds good


Also, I've got a buildup animation for the Bio Research Facility (Not the Bio Tech Lab);
I'll attach it when you want.

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 3 2009, 12:59 PM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 3 2009, 02:57 PM
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Ohh, WATER splashes? "splash" usually refers to splash damage around the impact point in the stuff I'm working with tongue.gif
I don't think there is any kind of check for which terrain an impact animation plays on, meaning it's almost impossible to find where such a distinction would have to be put in, and how it would have to be made...

Hmm, it is checked for spawning the scorch marks or craters though; those never appear on water. I might be able to copy from that.

As for the SAM, I just realized weapons themselves have sounds too (of course). I can really just give it to the SAM weapon, heh.

[edit]

wtf... the SAM site weapon actually HAS a sound set; the same one used for the gunboat and adv. Guard Tower. But this is apparently IGNORED for the SAM site. Might be because of the deploy logic...

I linked it to the 'SAMFIRE' smoke animation now, and it works perfectly.


QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 3 2009, 01:57 PM) *
Also, I've got a buildup animation for the Bio Research Facility (Not the Bio Tech Lab);
I'll attach it when you want.

Ehh, C&C has a "bio-research laboratory", a "hospital" and a "technology center"/"prison". The bio lab and hospital already have a buildup, so I assume you mean the tech center?

Anyway, I won't add buildups like that, for two reasons:
1. they won't be the same quality as Westwood's work. I think I've seen a buildup for this too, but it started halfway and looked really rough
2. Adding a buildup for a building makes it sellable. I had enough problems making the hospital unsellable without removing that buildup animation (using the ss*.mix logic, copied to be used for updatrem.mix). In DOS C&C, that's a code exception, but in C&C95 it was never dealt with, meaning that this vital mission target could simply be sold.

Still, from a modder's point of view, I'm interested in seeing it tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Dec 4 2009, 01:02 AM


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Poskov
post Dec 4 2009, 01:21 AM
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That's great; what's the SAM's firing sound now?
InfantryBazooka Sound? (I think it would sound better than the AGT & gunBoat firing, because that sound reminds me of GDI)
It's own firing sound?

Do you have the beta/extended sounds.mix for TD? I do and I think you should add some of those into the game.
There's a heli takeoff sound, SAM site turn sound and lots of others

Also, is it possible to enable a custom EVA for nod?
So default TD would have the same EVA for both,
but if one adds in their own EVA .AUDs to a .mix (NODEVA.mix maybe?)
Nod would then use the EVA sounds from that mix.


Lastly, I've wanted to add this to my TD for a long time:

1. The viceroid has a sidebar icon (I've already added one myself)
2. Nod can build the "technology center" and it also has a sidebar icon
3. Once it's built, you can have viceroids dropped off at your base (the techcenter is a prerequisite)
Is it possible todo that?

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 4 2009, 01:22 AM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 5 2009, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 4 2009, 02:21 AM) *
That's great; what's the SAM's firing sound now?
InfantryBazooka Sound? (I think it would sound better than the AGT & gunBoat firing, because that sound reminds me of GDI)
It's own firing sound?

It uses the AGT/Gunboat one. It was set like that in the original SAM weapon, so I'm keeping that. It sounds really nice ingame; it's the same as in the SAM site video.

QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 4 2009, 02:21 AM) *
Do you have the beta/extended sounds.mix for TD? I do and I think you should add some of those into the game.
There's a heli takeoff sound, SAM site turn sound and lots of others

The beta sounds (zounds.mix) are included in the patch, and can be activated through conquer.ini. Not sure about the unused sounds from the DOS version, but I do think they're in there. But I don't think anyone ever found the filenames of these files...

QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 4 2009, 02:21 AM) *
Also, is it possible to enable a custom EVA for nod?
So default TD would have the same EVA for both, but if one adds in their own EVA .AUDs to a .mix (NODEVA.mix maybe?)
Nod would then use the EVA sounds from that mix.

Side separated? Nope, but the 1.06 language system will allow you to replace the EVA by adding it as a new language pack.
I can separate the sides, but then all Nod sounds would need different filenames too. It'd be quite some work to expand the EVA sounds list.

QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 4 2009, 02:21 AM) *
Lastly, I've wanted to add this to my TD for a long time:

1. The viceroid has a sidebar icon (I've already added one myself)
2. Nod can build the "technology center" and it also has a sidebar icon
3. Once it's built, you can have viceroids dropped off at your base (the techcenter is a prerequisite)
Is it possible todo that?

Of course it is. I've already linked to my icons pack, which includes icons for the visceroid, dinos and tech center. All you need is add the icons and your tech center buildup in an sc*.mix file, and edit the exe stats to make the tech center and visceroid buildable, and set their prerequisites correctly.

Oh, and it's "visceroid", with an s in between. The Sole Survivor icon has that wrong; it's fixed in my pack tongue.gif

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Poskov
post Dec 7 2009, 01:10 AM
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Hope you get around to the Nod EVA list.
Also you could include the NODEVA.mix with dummy files with the proper names and then,
then I could replace the dummy files with .AUDs and the conquer.ini, there should be a line which says something like:
CustomNodEVA=0, changing it to 1 would make TD read both speech.mix and NODEVA.mix



Oh, you fixed the TD prerequisite bug? I remember back in the day, only certain structures could be used a prerequisite for units/buildings.

I take it you've made a custom editor to mod this TD? dance.gif


I conclude the viceroid in TD and the visceroid in TS are two different species.
They look different and attack differently and viceroids don't need to fuse together to mature.


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Nyerguds
post Dec 7 2009, 07:39 AM
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About the prerequisites bug... you have to keep in mind this is a hardware limit. To allow combinations of prerequisites, the only easy way to store them is by using single bits. A 0 for "Not A Prerequisite", a 1 for "Is Prerequisite".

But that way, you can only store 8 buildings into every byte, and a normal big value in 32-bit programs is only 4 bytes... meaning you can only store 32 options. So it's normal that they had to make choices in which buildings to add to that list.


As for the Nod EVA, I think maybe the easy way to do this is simply by making a duplicate EVA voices list, and making the EVA playing function check the current player side, and decide which list to use depending on that. It would mean I don't even have to expand the normal list at all; it'll just be a duplicate with the Nod filenames smile.gif

The naming format should be easy. All GDI EVA files end on either "1" or nothing. All Nod ones will thus, logically, end on "2", keeping the DOS 8.3 format in mind (so UNITLOST.AUD becomes UNITLOS2.AUD, and not UNITLOST2.AUD, since that's more than 8 chars in the first part)


And yes, I have made a custom editor (well, I adapted an old savegame editor to serve as C&C95 editor).
I probably won't actually make my own editor, unless I remake all units, buildings, structures etc sections to make sure all compiler-optimized values are expanded to their actual possible size. For example, if you got a unit with less than 128 health, it's now stored in 1 byte instead of 4, while units in general CAN have more. This of course prevents you from giving it more health if you mod it, since there is only one byte to edit. So if I remake the sections, I'll make sure all of these are expanded to the full 4 bytes.
This does have the disadvantage that all current editors would become completely incompatible with it, so I'm really not sure if I'll ever do this (not even counting the fact it's a crapload of work) tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Dec 7 2009, 10:48 AM


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Poskov
post Dec 8 2009, 12:51 AM
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I'm, uh, at a loss here...


I can't use the techcenter as a prequisite for the viceroid?

And the 1.06 patch is compatible with existing editors?

Also what about the 127 hp limit on light units; will that value be augmented?


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post Dec 9 2009, 12:01 AM
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the 127 hit points thing is exactly what I was talking about. If I adjust that, then the data in the exe is moved, and editors like Gold Edit and TibEd will no longer have the correct addresses at which they can to edit the game data.

So either I just leave it as it is, or I fix and expand all that, but them I gotta make my own editor.

As for the tech center, I don't see your problem, it's part of the prerequisites list. It's bit #23.

[edit]

Well I'll be damned... it's missing in TibEd's list! It should be right at the end, behind the ACC :-\

The full list is this:

00000001 Weapons Factory
00000002 Guard tower
00000004 Adv. guard tower
00000008 Obelisk of light
00000010 Comm. center
00000020 Gun turret
00000040 Construction yard
00000080 Refinery
00000100 Silo
00000200 Helipad
00000400 SAM site
00000800 Airstrip
00001000 Power plant
00002000 Adv. power plant
00004000 Hospital
00008000 Barracks
00010000 Oil Tanker (civilian building "ARCO")
00020000 Repair bay
00040000 Bio-technology lab
00080000 Hand of Nod
00100000 Temple of Nod
00200000 Adv. comm. center
00400000 Technology center
These values are hexadecimal. As pure binary they'd all be 32 bits long. This is shorter tongue.gif
Each of them is a single bit. the values can be added together to enable more than one bit, giving something multiple prerequisites.

Odd how TibEd is missing that last one... it can be added in UGE though.

Hm, I posted more info on the subject here:
http://forums.cncnz.com/index.php?showtopi...mp;#entry173090

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Poskov
post Dec 9 2009, 02:59 AM
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This is nice stuff,

A few more things:

1. Mind listing all the units with an HP limit of 127?

2. Did you fix the power bug with the powerplants? The 255 limit.

3. What new features do you plan to add to the patch from this topic?
(Water splashes, laser beam fix, midair selectable aircraft, object queing, probability of human mutating to viceroid?)



If you ever happen to make your own editor, here are some needed features:
*Weapon statistics edit
*Unit prerequisite edit (techlevel & buildlevel be changed to more user friendly strings)
*Light unit max hp beyond 127 (stnk, commando, arty)
*Tiberium healing as a togglable function

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 9 2009, 03:25 AM


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post Dec 9 2009, 03:38 PM
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As I said, any bug fixes in the maximum value ranges would make the game incompatiblie with all existing editors.

And I already explained that most of these suggestions simply can't be done. I might look into water splashes, but even there I'm not sure if it's possible.

as for your features:
-Weapon stats: I'm already adding that to UGE
-prerequisite: what? techlevel and prerequisite are 100% separate, and if I make an editor the prerequisite building will simply be a list of checkboxes or something for each one. I don't see your problem really... just look at TibEd.
-has nothing to dfo with the editor. As I said, that's the expanding of the sections.
-Not a clue where the tiberium damage is stored, so I can't change it. I do have the stats for nuke and ion cannon though.


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post Dec 10 2009, 12:46 AM
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Ok, fine

but do you mind giving me a list of all the units with an HP limit of 127?


Also can you make Nod be able to build the helipad? I tried lowering it's techlevel but I still couldn't build it.
I think this problem also affects the Chem Warrior, not entirely sure though; I haven't looked at it recently


Can only buildings with buildup animations be built? (unrelated to the helipad)
When does 1.06c come out, so I can finally play these new features?

This post has been edited by Poskov: Dec 10 2009, 01:02 AM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 10 2009, 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 10 2009, 01:46 AM) *
Ok, fine

but do you mind giving me a list of all the units with an HP limit of 127?

Sorry, I'm frantically trying to finish a school project right now. I'll try looking at it in the weekend. But basically, if you just make a list of all original unit health values, all of those with a value under 128 can't go beyond 127.


QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 10 2009, 01:46 AM) *
Also can you make Nod be able to build the helipad? I tried lowering it's techlevel but I still couldn't build it.
I think this problem also affects the Chem Warrior, not entirely sure though; I haven't looked at it recently

I've been trying to get rid of all of that kind of special exceptions, yes, but I haven't found the Nod helipad thing yet. Another odd tech level exception like that is the fact GDI can't build engineers in level 2, while Nod can. Same for the bazooka on level 3. You can only build them by capturing the enemy base. Same goes for the helipad, btw.

The chem warrior unit is totally unrelated to that though. It simply isn't available to build in single player. Like the Apache and SSM, they're simply meant to be multiplayer-only units. But you can make the SSM, Chemwarrior and commando buildable simply by lowering their buildlevel setting.


QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 10 2009, 01:46 AM) *
Can only buildings with buildup animations be built? (unrelated to the helipad)

No, whether something can be built is just a parameter for every unit and structure. If a building doesn't have a build-up animation, it can't be sold though. And this can perfectly controlled with normal modding; use sc*.mix to add files (making normally unsellable buildings sellable by adding a buildup), and ss*.mix to remove buildup animations (making them unsellable).

Of course, since ss*.mix makes sure the file is not read by the game, you don't have to actually put a SHP file in there; an empty file with the right name (????make.shp) is enough wink1.gif

QUOTE (Poskov @ Dec 10 2009, 01:46 AM) *
When does 1.06c come out, so I can finally play these new features?

Somewhere after january. I got a ton of exams coming up. If you follow the developement on the C&C Sector forums (click my sig image) you'll see my latest updates right away.


Hm, you raised an interesting point there about that helipad, actually. I should check to make sure the funpark campaign I added in the New Missions menu doesn't suffer from that. It'd be a real shame if you can't build helis on mission #4 if you choose Nod.

[edit]

Crap, they indeed can't build helis. That helipad issue just moved to the top of my priorities list...

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Dec 10 2009, 07:21 AM


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SeekSomethingNew
post Dec 10 2009, 09:29 PM
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Nyerguds
post Dec 11 2009, 01:46 AM
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You don't happen to have any clue which code is responsible for adding construction options? It should be in that code somewhere...

I tried a global search for instructions with parameter "9" (the helipad ID) but that was a mess.

I kinda hoped that exception would be removed at buildlevel 98, but no such luck...

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Dec 11 2009, 11:10 AM


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Nyerguds
post Dec 13 2009, 02:28 AM
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Just a note... Koen added the missing prerequisites to TibEd.

This post has been edited by Nyerguds: Dec 13 2009, 02:41 AM


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