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Aircraft beakthrough! |
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Jun 30 2007, 04:40 AM
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Core Defender
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(Yea, I posted it on PPM as well) Well if you didn't know already, there's a technique where you can make aircraft out of vehicles by giving them a flying locomotor** and MovementZone=fly. When a vehicle is made into an aircraft, it allows the aircraft to follow pretty much every logic that a vehicle supports - HVA animation, troop transport, deploying, shp, harvesting (well, sort of...), and turrets, to name a few. This method has 2 major problems: 1 - the unit can't reveal shroud - this can be more or less overcome by making the unit MoveToShroud=no, as most aircraft are anyways... 2 - the unit is invincible during flight - due to this characteristic, this method has been mostly disregarded, as it can easily cause gameplay & balance issues. Up to this point, I've said pretty much everything we have already found out. So what's the breakthrough? get a load of this: I told you in Jah's heli research thread I couldn't take "no" for an answer, and after doing some research of my own, I found that the flying vehicles WERE in fact vulnerable to two things: >Firestorm defense, but more importantly: >Railguns! By making the railgun projectile AA=yes, they can successfully target, damage, and destroy flying vehicles! Granted, it's not an ultimate flawless solution, as you'll need to make all your AA guns into railguns - but the important thing is that it's that it's possible, and that there IS a way to make hva anims, air transports, shp vehicles, and all that other cool stuff, without sending gameplay and balance to heck. Dogfights? sort of. I made these planes play a game of chicken - only one of them fired though, one time, then after that they just sat there floating. I had to order it to attack before it would fire again. It should be also noted that they can shoot at stuff while landed (though the airplanes themselves don't need to be armed with railguns, of course ) **I've found that the jumpjet locomotor is best - the actual aircraft loco makes the unit get stuck on the war factory bib, unable to move, and disabling further warfactory production. Selling/undeploying the warfactory frees the aircraft, but I would deem it too unpractical to do that for each new aircraft that you make - it should be noted, also, that units with the the jumpjet locomotor take a decent amount of time to "get out" of the warfactory, meaning, that no other units can be produced while it's exiting the War Factory. I'd advise giving your aircraft some good speed and/or editing the [jumpjet controls] section, to achieve the most desirable result . This means, that this method would be best for things like helicopters and hot air balloons, but probably not for actual planes. >If you found any of this useful, please be sure to let me know, it did take some testing till I achieved this info, thanks
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Jun 30 2007, 11:04 AM
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Flame Tank
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As posted on PPM:
You know,it may not be because its a railgun that it does damage, it may just be affected by particle systems and/or AmbientDamage=
I suggest the follow up research to this should be into that - finding aout what actually does the damage, the particles or the ambient damage. Particlesdo damage through tags in the actual particle code (MaxDC= and Damage=), and ambient damage works through the weapon.
Once we know what causes the damage, it's a case of using it on the AA weapons, either by adding ambient damage to it or by using a particle system to it.
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Fluent in |3375p3k, 68 65 78 65 64 65 63 69 6d 61 6c, ebg13, -- --- .-. ... . -.-. --- -.. . --..-- and 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 0111100100101110 (Whoever translates that gets nothing, just +1 on thier geek score)
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Jun 30 2007, 12:55 PM
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Stealth Tank
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just adding the AmbientDamage tag doesn't work (tested) I've added to [RedEye2] AmbientDamage=15; my jumpjet wolverine was still invincible. P.S. awesome find TB \EDIT it's the railgun that does the damage. AmbientDamage=15 IsRailgun=true AttachedParticleSystem=SmallRailgunSys are responsible for the damage Hovermissile+Railgun the problem is that railguns always fire with speed=100. attached on a missile, this means you have a slow flying missile and a fast railgun fired at the same time. Target on Ground: First hits the railgun with ambientdamage= and then the missile (that takes a little longer) with damage=. Target in Air: Only the AmbientDamage hits the target. The damage= tag does nothing. (railgun damages, missile doesn't damages)I don't know how to slow down railguns so that their impact time is the same as the actual weapon. (here missile) Also worth mentioning: this way a unit can have 2 weapons fired at the same time. Missile+Railgun or Cannon+Railgun etc. for TCM: lets make an High-Tech anti Scrin Air Defense like a Railgun flak. (flak=ger FlugAbwehrKanone engl AirDefenseCannon)
This post has been edited by Lin Kuei Ominae: Jun 30 2007, 02:24 PM
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Jun 30 2007, 02:27 PM
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Webmaster
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Does it have to be a railgun, or do other particle systems also work? One could attach an explosion-like particle system to the warhead which would deal out the actual damage.
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Jun 30 2007, 02:42 PM
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Hover MLRS
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Would it be possible to make another animation for the railgun that is invisible? That way you could have a weakened railgun that's invisible in every unit, so they can attack the scrin aircraft? Pardon my ignorance if i am wrong. I've never modded, voxeled, SHPed or mappen before
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Jun 30 2007, 08:30 PM
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Stealth Tank
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QUOTE (Team Black rocks @ Jun 30 2007, 04:39 PM) For sure though, this puts flying buildings back into the TCM as a full possibility - that, and air transports, and moving rotors, and all that other jazz B0 correct a Railgun with ParticlesPerCoord=0.0001 Laser=no is complete invisible and the railgun doesn't lags the game anymore. (tested) \EDIT i've tested now quite a lot of different strategies with the particle system to get it work only on impact. The poor result, i didn't got it. first: Weapon Particlei tried to get rid of the IsRailgun=true tag and added UseFireParticles/UseSparkParticles instead. Both doesn't work. If they made damage, they only did this on ground. In air the Jumpjet Wolverine was still invincible. I also tried to use some different ParticleSystems but they all only worked on ground units too. now that this doesn't work... second: Warhead Particlei tried to move the damage towards the Warhead. removed the ParticleSystem from the Weapon and added Particle=SmallRailgunSys tag to my [FRAGHE] Warhead that is used from my Hover MLRS. The result was, it doesn't works too. Damage tags on the Particle (not the ParticleSystem) only affected ground units. But the quite funny side-effect was, that after the missile has hit the target, a laserline came down from the middle of the northern border of the map, because the Laser had no point of origin (because the weaponprojectile is gone). Maybe useful as some kind of Orbitallaser if the projectile is invisible. But be sure you have a very low number of Particles. A railgun drawn over the entire map uses a lot of particles. then i went back to the IsRailgun= tag and it seems to me that exact this one, in combination with the AmbientDamage= tag, makes it possible to hit the flying vehicle. Extra damage tags on the RailgunParticle only worked on ground units too. So AmbientDamage= seems to be the only one that can damage flying vehicles. I've failed finding an alternative for the Railgun, but that doesn't mean that nobody else finds a solution. I just want to mention the Disruptor system, that i haven't tested. \EDIT (tested and does not work) I also don't have a clue what makes the Firestorm hit the target, where it has its damage tags and how its Particles work.
This post has been edited by Lin Kuei Ominae: Jul 1 2007, 10:30 AM
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Jul 1 2007, 01:58 PM
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Light Tank
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cool thx team black
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Thanks bittah for the sig . Love MLRS, its the worlds most dangerous artillery. Tibweb forum Mod Leader of VENGEANCE TS/V Trailer Progress 20%The Explosion Expert
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Jul 2 2007, 02:51 PM
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Webmaster
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QUOTE (Lin Kuei Ominae @ Jun 30 2007, 04:31 PM) i don't know how an explosion particle has to be done. I've tested also the FireStreamSys (from FireBallLauncher) particle, but that doesn't work. or do you mean an art.ini custom animation with damage? just adding damage= to an explosion anim in art.ini doesn't work. only ground units get damaged with the extra damage. (tested) Add Particle= to the warhead? (Or something like that, it has been a while. Look at TSTW Ion Cannon logic)
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Please contact me on msn if you need me for anything, thanks.
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Dec 21 2007, 03:39 AM
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Attack Buggy
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(sorry if this isn't new ) Here is something i found by accident it only removes shroud when it touches down (seen in middle pic). It has the jj loco and spinning rotors for your information. im using Anderwins clean ini's and here is my code
huey_code.doc ( 9.5K )
Number of downloads: 318and make sure to put guardrange=1 or 2 so it wont fly off in to the darkness when their is an enemy nearby
This post has been edited by Roadwarrior: Dec 21 2007, 03:40 AM
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I shall confuse you all! Muhahahahaha!****Updated Mar 20 2008**** Don't forget to comment Voxels: UH-1 Huey SpotlightedPossible mods i will make for Tibsun: CnC:Terminator:Judgment Day
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Dec 21 2007, 04:00 AM
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Attack Buggy
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oh, ok when i saw that i was like omg wow O _ O
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I shall confuse you all! Muhahahahaha!****Updated Mar 20 2008**** Don't forget to comment Voxels: UH-1 Huey SpotlightedPossible mods i will make for Tibsun: CnC:Terminator:Judgment Day
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Dec 21 2007, 05:20 AM
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Stealth Tank
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TB, Rotor Effect? how so?
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Dec 21 2007, 05:58 AM
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Cyborg Commando
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought rotors didn't work in, TS.
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Aro - Leader of Twisted Insurrection and Evolution.Tiberian Sun: UMPTiberian Sun: Modding ToolsTiberian Sun: Mapping Tools"Aro is OP." - TiberianFuture "Aro for Dictator!" - Droke "Aro for President!" - CL4ymOr3 "You're Aro, you always win." - daTS "He's referred to as The Aro because he really is that f*cking awesome!" - Fenring "Only members of the A.R.O. Society are allowed to use :WAT and related terms (TAW:, :BIGV, etc.)." - Crimsonum "To Aro, founder and leader of TI, the best public relations and mod manager, great friend, modder and mapper." - Lin Kuei Ominae
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Dec 21 2007, 04:49 PM
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Core Defender
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Rotors work fine, and air transports. Watch this vidHere's the files I used:
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Dec 21 2007, 05:04 PM
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Cyborg Commando
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It's ashame the shadow's don't work correctly.
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Aro - Leader of Twisted Insurrection and Evolution.Tiberian Sun: UMPTiberian Sun: Modding ToolsTiberian Sun: Mapping Tools"Aro is OP." - TiberianFuture "Aro for Dictator!" - Droke "Aro for President!" - CL4ymOr3 "You're Aro, you always win." - daTS "He's referred to as The Aro because he really is that f*cking awesome!" - Fenring "Only members of the A.R.O. Society are allowed to use :WAT and related terms (TAW:, :BIGV, etc.)." - Crimsonum "To Aro, founder and leader of TI, the best public relations and mod manager, great friend, modder and mapper." - Lin Kuei Ominae
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Dec 21 2007, 05:51 PM
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Stealth Tank
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Hmm, Interesting stuff there mate.
So you got it to work almost perfect, only downside is the turret shadow, rail gun damage only and its a vehicle.
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Dec 22 2007, 04:23 AM
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Attack Buggy
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more off-topicness QUOTE (BlackieChan @ Dec 21 2007, 02:37 PM) Roadwarrior, where'd you get the UH-1 Iroquois? UH-1 Iroquois? "google's..."oh, ok you mean the huey".i made it it will be in my mod(click sig for link) On topic @TB:i didn't think to make the rotors a turret.And BTW MoveToShroud=no only makes it so you cant click on shroud GuardRange= should be at 1 so it wont fly off.
This post has been edited by Roadwarrior: Dec 22 2007, 04:32 AM
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I shall confuse you all! Muhahahahaha!****Updated Mar 20 2008**** Don't forget to comment Voxels: UH-1 Huey SpotlightedPossible mods i will make for Tibsun: CnC:Terminator:Judgment Day
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Dec 23 2007, 04:35 PM
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Technician
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Sorry if i'm repeating what might have been said already but... About the warfactory bit, couldn't you just set it so that the flying vehicle appears on a helipad instead of out of the war factory? And it is possible to have flying transports in Tiberian Sun... I've got 3. Just use this code... It works to a certain extent. (dropship as example)
[DSHP] Name=Dropship Primary=Bomb2 (i made it's projectile invisible, and does 0 damage, effectively unarmed) Prerequisite=GAHPAD,GATECH Strength=500 Category=Transport Armor=heavy TechLevel=9 Sight=8 RadarInvisible=no carryall=no Landable=yes MoveToShroud=no Dock=GAHPAD PipScale=Passengers Passengers=5 Speed=15 PitchSpeed=1.1 Owner=GDI Cost=2000 Points=20 ROT=5 Crewed=yes Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60 VoiceSelect=30-I000,30-I002,30-I004,30-I006 VoiceMove=30-I014,30-I016,30-I018,30-I022 VoiceAttack=30-I022,30-I034,30-I036 FlightLevel=1500 MaxDebris=9 Locomotor={4A582746-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1} MovementZone=Fly ThreatPosed=10 SlowdownDistance=1250 DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys AuxSound1=DROPUP1 ;Taking off AuxSound2=DROPDWN1 ;Landing
It can fly about and land like a normal fighter, and can carry infantry about, but with infantry inside it, it will go back to one of your units and fly around like a retard. You can use paratroopers like this, and it can only deploy by actually clicking it, then clicking it again, the deploy shortcut doesn't work... I also noticed that if you do this to the orca transport, in some of the missions where you have to evac civilians, the orca transport will start attacking your people. This is probably because of the houses aren't allied, but it's pretty funny to watch. But yeah, awesome break-through, maybe that could be used to get rid of the stupidness of what I did. Oh, and can you make say a flying Amphibious APC using the movementZone=Fly and the aircraft locomotor?
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Dec 23 2007, 08:54 PM
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Core Defender
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Thanks for sharing your info, though making it an "AircraftType" (that is, buildable on a helipad) has some glitchiness when it's given the ability to transport infantry - it dances around in the air, unable to land.. QUOTE Oh, and can you make say a flying Amphibious APC using the movementZone=Fly and the aircraft locomotor? Well that's sort of what I did for test #3 in the youtube vid.. Making a "VehicleType" (built from the War Factory) PipScale=Pasengers and Passengers=5, and it can transport infantry with no problems at all
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