the theme of the mod?, important decision #1 Options

[Roani52]

So, If I'm not mistaken: This will be a TW Mod??
Then What CnC3 should've been won't be a bad idea. I heard that it's quite boring... Right? I want to help when TS:V is done and I've a new PC. And CnC3... Or isn't it worth buying at all?

[Lightstorm]

no its for TS, although I'd go ahead and buy TW if you want. its not a bad game, just a bad C&C

for airborne units we could do what TB suggested and have hoverlogic with an increased float height. also to consider: if we make the terrain we should make those giant tiberium glaciers like in TW. they were actually pretty cool. we just do one thing different: we make them explode into minable tiberium when hit.

This post has been edited by Lightstorm: May 22 2007, 01:23 PM

[ChielScape]

even if the first part becomes scrin vs scrin, i do request my earlier post to be re-read for the second part, as I seemed to get ignored.

[Team Black]

Sorry about that Cheil - I like the second part of what you said
It also gave me an idea: what might be cool is to have the mutants on some missions just chillin...
Then have hidden triggers that will activate them & choose who they ally with.
So, if you were to free the mutants from an attack or something, then it would activate a trigger that makes them ally & activate their AI triggers, and help you out.
Or if you were, to maybe destroy a church, it would ally the mutants against you, and you'd have to fight them off as well as the original enemies.
Then we could do globals - if you get the mutants to ally with you in one mission, then they'll be your allys in another one, for example, or you might get reinforcements, or something.

>And yea the scrin flying thing I was thinking we could make them hover, and change the hover height & [cliff] hover=%100, and everything else in Jah's thread on PPM...
I'm thinking we might be wanting some navy stuff, and if we do it'll defeat the purpose of normal hover vehicles - - -
OR we could have or exe editors work on a tag that makes HoverHeight= a unit-specific value.

>I'm seeing some resemblance between the mutants and Scrin rebels - both of em tame the tiberian wildlife, and since the mutants have the tacitus, they might have some of the rebel's technology -

>For part II we can divide the Rebel's technology between the Scrin and the mutants, and maybe Nod as well

[Warlord]

This mod from my view is sounding a bit starcrafty, remember its C&C not alien vs predator

This post has been edited by Warlord: May 22 2007, 05:34 PM

[Corsair]

What if the rebels were the bad guys too, to us anyway. They come to earth to destroy all life to prevent the tiberium from mutating everything, and attempt to destroy tiberium itself, and the main Scrin force that planted it there intervene and attack the Scrin rebels. The rebels are attacking a source of energy and resources for the main Scrin force. So Nod could join one of the Scrin forces, and GDI could stay their own force.

(I don't know if anyone else brought this idea up, or if its even relevant; I briefly skimmed through the topic )

This post has been edited by Corsair: May 22 2007, 06:05 PM

[Team Black]

What if the rebels were the bad guys too, to us anyway. They come to earth to destroy all life to prevent the tiberium from mutating everything, and attempt to destroy tiberium itself, and the main Scrin force that planted it there intervene and attack the Scrin rebels. The rebels are attacking a source of energy and resources for the main Scrin force. So Nod could join one of the Scrin forces, and GDI could stay their own force.

Well technically the rebels were kinda defeated by the Scrin, and the last of the rebels took the tacitus with them and crashed to earth...

[Corsair]

Yea, like I said, I briefly skimmed through the topic, but I thought I'd put in my two cents just in case my idea wasn't completely out in left field

[ChielScape]

Sorry about that Cheil - I like the second part of what you said
It also gave me an idea: what might be cool is to have the mutants on some missions just chillin...
Then have hidden triggers that will activate them & choose who they ally with.
So, if you were to free the mutants from an attack or something, then it would activate a trigger that makes them ally & activate their AI triggers, and help you out.
Or if you were, to maybe destroy a church, it would ally the mutants against you, and you'd have to fight them off as well as the original enemies.
Then we could do globals - if you get the mutants to ally with you in one mission, then they'll be your allys in another one, for example, or you might get reinforcements, or something.

>And yea the scrin flying thing I was thinking we could make them hover, and change the hover height & [cliff] hover=%100, and everything else in Jah's thread on PPM...
I'm thinking we might be wanting some navy stuff, and if we do it'll defeat the purpose of normal hover vehicles - - -
OR we could have or exe editors work on a tag that makes HoverHeight= a unit-specific value.

>I'm seeing some resemblance between the mutants and Scrin rebels - both of em tame the tiberian wildlife, and since the mutants have the tacitus, they might have some of the rebel's technology -

>For part II we can divide the Rebel's technology between the Scrin and the mutants, and maybe Nod as well

i didnt mean the second part of what i said, i meant the second part of the mod using/being based on the plot i thought up.

[Team Black]

Scrinvasion (fend them off in mission 1) -> GDI+Nod alliance (like FS) (missions 2-5/6) -> kane reappears with CABAL -> Nod tries to reunite with them, breaking the alliance with GDI (6/7-10/11) -> GDI wants CABALs tech for itself. (6/7-10/11) -> the faction played succeeds in securing CABALs tech and beats scrin. (11/12-14/15)
thats my 2 ct.

a reappearance of Kane would be a good idea, and yea that would DEFINITELY be a good way to break the alliance with gdi.
So you're suggesting that CABAL might have some key info/technology on how to beat the scrin that both GDI and Nod want?


You guys think it's time to start officially planning the campaign & unit lists then? Looks like we've come to a general agreement on the theme...

[Bittah Commander]

EDIT: mutants... err... forming temporary alliances with mutants is possible in many missions, for both GDI and NOD. If left alone they will attack both the scrin and the player. forming the aliance is done by completing their objective(s). their building and/or units will then be added to the players arsenal.
civillians are to be protected at all costs, for both GDI and Nod. they are both GDIs mission and Nods source of followers. protecting cities for a given period of time will add the civilian's building to your arsenal, from which you can buy infantry, some of which otherwise not available, for a relatively low price.

Your last idea sounds interesting, but if you think it through, I don't think it really contributes to the gameplay. Also, storywise, Nod would only protect their own Civilians and unlike in TD (where they killed Civilians that didn't follow them), they just don't bother with any other civilians. That's what I think at least.
Mutants weren't that aggressive in Tiberian Sun; the only time they showed aggression to GDI is when Nod made them believe GDI attacked them. The Forgotten and Nod will always be enemy (the main reason being that Nod used mutants to experiment upon) and I think the Civilians will just be either neutral or allied to GDI (depending on the situation/mission).

[ChielScape]

a reappearance of Kane would be a good idea, and yea that would DEFINITELY be a good way to break the alliance with gdi.
So you're suggesting that CABAL might have some key info/technology on how to beat the scrin that both GDI and Nod want?


You guys think it's time to start officially planning the campaign & unit lists then? Looks like we've come to a general agreement on the theme...

CABAL díd decypher the tacitus, so he knows most about the scrin. he has scrin technology that can be used against the invaders, combined with either GDI or NOD tech, depending on which faction gets to CABAL first.
the TS Banshee would be nothing compared to what could be made with both human and alien tech. ORCA bombers with heavy tiberium based laser-guided bombs, a mammoth walker with photon cannons, a flametank using tiberium as fuel, reaching much higher temperatures, tiberium-based armor, etc.

Your last idea sounds interesting, but if you think it through, I don't think it really contributes to the gameplay. Also, storywise, Nod would only protect their own Civilians and unlike in TD (where they killed Civilians that didn't follow them), they just don't bother with any other civilians. That's what I think at least.
Mutants weren't that aggressive in Tiberian Sun; the only time they showed aggression to GDI is when Nod made them believe GDI attacked them. The Forgotten and Nod will always be enemy (the main reason being that Nod used mutants to experiment upon) and I think the Civilians will just be either neutral or allied to GDI (depending on the situation/mission).

like i said, if you save the civ's, they join your side. they will think of you as their saviour, whether you're playing nod or GDI doesnt matter. Of course not all of them will join, but killing too many of those will make the ones who initially joined you turn their backs against you.
you're probably right about the mutants though.

[Lightstorm]

heres my campaign idea:
GDI
mission 1: you have a big base, then the scrin attack, you manage to hold them off while the Kodiak escapes then the mission ends and the base is overrun

mission 2: your forces have to evacuate settlement T-3 (making up name off the top of my head) you have two objectives, first you need to rescue some imporant scientists whose transport was shot down in the city then you need to punch through a Nod blockade and help both your forces and the civilains in the city escape before the scrin overrun the area. to make matters worse there is a huge ion storm over the entire area and you need to evacuate on ground.

Mission 3: Your outside the city, you must escape with as many of your forces as you can being sure to protect the scientists and the civilians, you have 7 civilian transports and 2 scientist transports. you can loose up to three civilian transports before you loose but if any of the scientists die you lose. (Ion storm goes on until you reach the end of the level where it ends and a transport comes.

mission 4 pt 1: the scientists go to a lab and you have to protect from both scrin and Nod them while they figure out a way to stop the scrin.

mission 5 (same map different objective): you have to sneak into a scrin base with a small team, steal a ship (pick one I don't care) and escape with it. the scin/nod are still attacking you but not as much, get the scrin ship back to the scientists, if either the lab or the ship dies you loose.

mission 6: The information reveals that the best way to stop scrin is to infect their computer systems with a virus (ID4) unfortunately the only computer system capable of the is you guessed it CABAL) so you must gather the pieces of CABAL (at the site of last firestorm mission) and repair it, then once its repaired it tries to reactivate the Core Defender and you have to destroy it (its mostly dead already so it won't be as hard as in FS) and get a special engineer to the Cabal Core to take control of it.

mission 7: with Cabal infecting the scrin computer their main outer defenses (the ones impossible to kill) go offline (but only for a limited amount of time say 30 minutes) you have to build an army then activate the Cabal Virus and take out the scrin mothership. (the big one not the one you start the scrin mission with the one where all the ships come from) it would have to be a BIG!!! unit.

Scrin Campaign:
Mission 1: scrin attack (INSERT MAJOR CITY NAME HERE) and destroy the downtown with a superweapon. then you land your forces and set up a base. your objective is to secure the area around a GDI lab (destroy the base save for the lab)

Mission 2: defend the base from GDI counterattack and secure the tacitus from the lab(say it was collecting information on Humanity)

Mission 3: pick up Kane. Of course Kane was working for scrin, you get Kane from a Nod base (the Nod don't fight but GDI has the base under siege) you get out and destroy GDI but an Ion strom strikes and Kane's transport crashes.

Mission 4: token 'run the gauntlet' mission. Nod thinks you betrayed them and are out to get you, you must brave the Ion strom and find Kane and get him back to a friendly Nod base. with your most powerful units unavailable you have to get to Kane and take him out of the area fighting off attacks from both GDI and hostile NoD.

Mission 5: Some Nod still don't trust you and begin an insurgency (like always) you have to destroy them for Kane.

Mission 6: GDI is planning on attacking you mothership (the big one) with their Ion Cannons from space. unfortunatly your forces are out of fuel and cannot attack them directly in orbit. you have to destroy the Ion cannon uplink (along with the rest of the GDI base) before GDI can fire all their Ion cannons at your mothership and destroy it

Mission 7: attack main GDI base. Nod helps you but are quickly overrun. (GDI is Brutal here) you need to take out the firestorm generators (like three of them) and destroy the GDI base, its tough though, hard as the last FS mission.

thats my basic skeleton do with it what you wish, it could easily be altered to include mutant objectives on some missions and as soon as we decide who you play the prequel as I'll make a campaign for that.

[Team Black]

Are we ready to start deciding the campaign then?

(lightstorm is getting a little impatient I see - but that's a good thing though)

I'll start a new separate thread for it, if you think we're ready XD - I'll take all our campaign ideas so far and conglomerate em, that'll kick us off.

[Lightstorm]

i guess so but still in the prologue will you be scrin or rebels?

[Bittah Commander]

Whoah, I think you're getting ahead of yourself, Lightstorm. The story hasn't even been agreed on and let alone finished yet...
Also, even when the story has been finished, I think the campaign should have to wait until the mod is at least half-way through the development (mostly to prevent the campaign or the story from getting compromised).

@ Chielscape:
I agree it might nice for some missions to have civilians who'll join your faction, but I think we'll have to see how that'll work out.
About your other (technology related) idea, I think you're exaggerating a bit. Also, in Tiberian Incursion CABAL was going to not only take on GDI/Nod, but the Scrin as well (Adam Isgreen's words). This means (which I think was already obvious to many actually) CABAL won't be allying to any faction. I don't think any faction will make the mistake to re-activate CABAL again either. Aside from that, for as far as both GDI or Nod know, CABAL has been completely destroyed, so there would be no way to re-activate him anyway (rebuilding CABAL maybe, but for the reason I already stated there's no way this will happen).

[Team Black]

I scoured Petroglyph and posted up links & quotes about Westwood's ideas for the TS/FS sequel here. Give em a run-through when you guys can
Good stuff there

So our next step is to plan a story?

This post has been edited by Team Black: May 23 2007, 01:52 AM

Reason for edit: Bittah Commander smells like lasagna

[Bittah Commander]

I think you could've just linked to/used this topic instead: Original intentions with C&C.

And yes, Adam Isgreen is indeed green Ishmael (he'll hate me for this)

[Team Black]

Ah yeah, true...well, OK

Mine has ONLY Ishmael's quotes, has links, and a link to the CNCsource archive where there's original Tiberian Twilight concept art

[Bittah Commander]

Is that so?
I could merge yours with mine if you want to by the way.

[Team Black]

[ChielScape]

Whoah, I think you're getting ahead of yourself, Lightstorm. The story hasn't even been agreed on and let alone finished yet...
Also, even when the story has been finished, I think the campaign should have to wait until the mod is at least half-way through the development (mostly to prevent the campaign or the story from getting compromised).

@ Chielscape:
I agree it might nice for some missions to have civilians who'll join your faction, but I think we'll have to see how that'll work out.
About your other (technology related) idea, I think you're exaggerating a bit. Also, in Tiberian Incursion CABAL was going to not only take on GDI/Nod, but the Scrin as well (Adam Isgreen's words). This means (which I think was already obvious to many actually) CABAL won't be allying to any faction. I don't think any faction will make the mistake to re-activate CABAL again either. Aside from that, for as far as both GDI or Nod know, CABAL has been completely destroyed, so there would be no way to re-activate him anyway (rebuilding CABAL maybe, but for the reason I already stated there's no way this will happen).

since kane=cabal, at least up to some level, NOD will be able to join. (kane has found a new purpose for his puppets) and GDI will use force.

@lightstorm: there is no kodiak. it got shot down in FS, remember? a new mobile command center will be ok, but you should think of a new name.
and since the mod was supposed to be split up into 2 parts (scrin vs scrin, and scrin vs earth) i dont think a GDI campaign should come BEFORE a scrin one.

[Bittah Commander]

Kane=CABAL?

Yep, we had plans for him. Without going into any real detail, eventually, he'd re-emerge with a cyborg / machine faction that had its desires set on conquering not just humanity... but the Scrin as well. The creation of CABAL via the Tacitus information and Kane's mind made for a very power-hungry and ruthless entity that sought control above all else.

It's interesting how Ishmael said re-emerge...

Kane built CABAL and incorporated pieces of his psyche into the machine while constructing its personality. Ever see the film "Saturn 5"? The robot learned its obsessions and murderous tendencies from the "teacher" it was connected to -- a similar thing happened here. CABAL is an extension of Kane's mind so that Kane would have a completely obedient and cunning ally. Unfortunately, the data from the Tacitus gave CABAL some other desires that allowed him to bend Kane's will and desires....

FWIW, there were 5 eventual factions planned when we were talking about C&C3 it back at WW: GDI, Nod, Scrin (first release), Forgotten (expansion 1), CABAL (expansion 2).

This doesn't mean Kane and CABAL are the same, it just means they both think alike and after reading the data from the Tacitus, CABAL started to think slightly different. So... I think it's safe to say that nothing of what happened in Firestorm was Kane's intention.

[ChielScape]

you never know. kane might not be what you think he is.

[Bittah Commander]

I know he's human... I used to speculate he was Scrin myself, but Ishmael confirmed he was really human.

[ChielScape]

enlighten me plz.

[Bittah Commander]

Sorry, I can't find the post in which he said that.

[Lightstorm]

Okay here's my scrin vs scrin campaign. you'll be playing as the rebels:
Mission 1
Dogma
The Scrin overlord has assumed total control of the planet and the last of the senate (or whatever you want to call their legislative body) is held up in a highrise in the capital and have taken with tem the scrin's most important relic the Tacitus, it contains the knowledge of the entire race. the capital itself has turned into a battle zone with senate forces trying to reach the former Capital building (now a palace) and kill the overlord. your forces are spearheading this attack when your supply line is cut and enemy troops destroy most of your forces. you must get your ship and surviving forces out of enemy territory before they can destroy your ship. (we need a scrin Mobile Command Ship)

Mission 2
A new world order
sneak into a overlord scrin base and steal a ship so you can evacuate the senators. there would be a time limit on how long you have to do this before your troops are discovered.

Mission 3
Exodus
Guard the highrise until the ship can arrive then guard the transport as it escapes the city

Mission 4
The Gauntlet
The ship is going to pick up the rest of your forces at your main base then leave the planet, however the ship is shot down, you must navigate the narrow canyons of the area to reach the hidden entrance to the enemy base, all the while trying to hold back the enemy troops that are following close behind.

Mission 5
Candle
You must guard the main base while your forces ready for departure, your scientists are working on building a new engine for the wrecked ship. at the end of the mission one of your officers flies your command ship (without you) into the canyon wall causing a landslide the blocks it from approach.

Mission 5
Precipice
You are evacuating the planet however the ship you need to do so is still crashed at the end of the canyon. you take a small assault force and attack an enemy base with the parts you need for the final repair operations.

Mission 6
The Sky so big and Balck
this is a long mission. first you must cross a crystal desert and down the side of the canyon to the crash site. there you meet up with the rest of your forces which have abandoned the base before it was overrun. you have to defend the crash site until your scientists can finish repairs. the mission ends with your army boarding the ship and taking off.

[ChielScape]

im sorry, but i dont think missions are decided that easily.
for now, what this mod needs is scrin structures/units designs. once we have those, we can make the graphics, and base the exxact storyline on it. every single mission should be planned ou in its own topic.
merely giving ideas like that doesnt make a mod. what needs to be done right now is for all people who are good at drawing, to draw concept art for the scrin units, based on but not limited to westwood's art.

not trying to be a dictator here or something like that, just my 2 ct.

[Bittah Commander]

Indeed, only units, buildings and missions should be based on the story and not vice versa, Chielscape.

I think it's indeed too early to start thinking about the missions, since we don't have a solid story finished yet.